Speaker 1: 0:11

Welcome to Unfazed Under Fire, a podcast designed to elevate your leadership and amplify your impact. Each episode offers valuable insights to help you transform your vision into reality, cultivate high-performing cultures that attract top talents, and navigate the complexities of today's uncertain, chaotic world with confidence and clarity. Now tuning into your needs, here's your host and moderator, seasoned executive coach and leadership alchemist, david Craig Utz.

Speaker 2: 0:46

So welcome back to Unfazed Under Fire. I'm David Craig Utz, your host and the leadership alchemist. Now this show is about empowering executives like you to amplify your leadership impact, gain new insights and build the resilience to navigate today's unpredictable world. We've taken a brief but necessary shift in our focus on the show to address an issue that impacts us all the upcoming US presidential election. So, yes, I am stepping in to the political fray a bit Now. In the last two episodes, I've explored the election through the lens of leadership and common sense, examining the qualities that truly matter when we're selecting someone to hold such an influential role, and reflecting on the real-world impact of our choices. If you missed those episodes, I highly recommend you step back and take a look at those Now.

Speaker 2: 1:30

Initially, this series was supposed to be just two episodes, but plans changed when I had a unique opportunity to connect with an incredible leader who not only brings a wealth of experience as a highly accomplished business executive, but also offers a common sense grounded perspective that can help each of us make a more informed choice.

Speaker 2: 1:49

So I want to emphasize that this series is much more than about politics. If this were just another election, I would have done what I've done in the past during every other election cycle and kept politics separated from business, but I felt strongly called because something different was up, and I believe that this is a moment in history that presents a stark choice a choice between freedom that allows the human spirit to flourish or a path that could constrain it, in service to those who do not have our best interests at heart. As I've said before, we live in the only country in the world whose principles of governance stand for life, liberty and an individual's pursuit of happiness, and at the highest level, this is the pursuit of spiritual freedom and the authentic expression for every citizen. And when the human spirit is encouraged, we know great things unfold. Now at its core, that's what I'm passionate about exploring in this show and with all my guests. Now this brings me to today's guest, guy Nora. Guy, it's great to have you on the show today.

Speaker 3: 2:50

It's a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 2: 2:52

Yeah. Now, before we dive into the conversation, I want to take the time to share a bit about your amazing background, if I can. So Guy is an accomplished entrepreneur, venture capitalist, philanthropist and former GOP gubernatorial candidate for Nevada. He brings deep knowledge and real world experience to provide common sense insights on business, politics and current events. As a founding partner of Alto Partners, guy played a key role in raising eight venture capital funds, resulting in over $2 billion in investments.

Speaker 2: 3:26

And, with more than 30 years of expertise in life sciences, guy has contributed to groundbreaking work in cardiovascular, neurogenic diseases, orthopedics and cancer. His achievements actually earned him a spot in Forbes Midas list in 2007. He served on over 30 boards, consistently delivering top-tier returns. His leadership includes chairing ZS Pharma before the $2.7 billion sale to AstraZeneca. He's also held notable roles, including president of the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society of Silicon Valley and serving on the Stanford Athletic Board. Having immigrated to the US at 15, after surviving the Beirut War, he embodies the American dream. He is known for his loyalty, authenticity, dedication to public service and commitment as a proud father in America, and we had a great conversation when we reconnected, and I'm thrilled to have you on the show, guy. Welcome.

Speaker 3: 4:23

I get embarrassed with the introductions, but it is what it is, I am who I am and you know it's all about the mission, not about the person.

Speaker 2: 4:30

So I appreciate you saying that and I think it's important that people know who you are so they can they perk their ears up a little bit, because you have accomplished quite a bit. But let's, let's start with your your more the humble part of your journey. You're a Lebanese American immigrant. Your life story is rich from the point of view that you escaped that war in Lebanon and came here. I'd love you to kind of share a little bit what that was like, to leave that, come to America, step in, and how that led you into the work that you do as a venture capitalist.

Speaker 3: 5:03

Yes. So the first thing is that I never talked about this until I ran for office. So I only a few close friends and people that were, you know, my family and so on, who is who heard this. But once I ran I actually it opened me up and it's actually a good thing. So I can answer your question much more comfortably than I would have.

Speaker 3: 5:28

Three years ago I was Lebanese Christian and at 15 I got involved in the civil war in Lebanon. I was fighting on the Christian side against, back then, the PLO and a bunch of other forces. One of the first questions people ask is, like they always say, just people like you, you know, they're like hey, and like me, you know we're parents. How did your parents let you at 15 go fight a war? Great question. In retrospect, now that I'm a parent, I understand it. But people have to know. In defense of my parents, I told them I was going to Boy Scout camp and I was actually going to commando camp. So that's how that occurred. One day, unfortunately, the war started and you got called. So after 90 days of combat off and on, my parents then actually, you know, exercised their prerogative and they took me from Beirut on the front, literally like my commanding officer, came over and said come with me. They took me home airport United States of America, alameda, california.

Speaker 2: 6:48

Wow, what a contrast, Wow.

Speaker 3: 6:51

So imagine you're going to a first, you're in a war zone and you're fighting, but then you're going to an all-boys school Catholic, never seen anybody else, never seen you know anybody else. And then you're parachuted into Alameda High School where you know people are making out in front of your locker yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So culture shock. However, the thing about that that's amazing, and this is about America. You know, I think it's really important that we talk about America for me. So I land, when you're from overseas. At that time, so we're looking 45 years ago or whatever it was your image of Americans is 6'2, surfer types. That's how we think Americans looked like when we were little kids and when we grew up, we watched John Wayne in the movies and all this.

Speaker 3: 7:48

So I land in Seattle, washington, my first destination, and the gentleman at immigration is actually an Asian American and your first thing is oh my gosh. Then you end up in San Francisco airport and you know we are who we are. You know we're a melting pot. So for a 15 year old, uh, who was? You know I'm, I'm mixed. Uh, my family were, you know I, you know I'm, I'm European, and and and Lebanese, uh. So for a 15 year old, who was too light, with light eyes in Lebanon to too dark and darker in Europe, the United States was the perfect combination for me. So from that moment on and we're talking week four, week five I was like, okay, I want to belong here. I have to find a way to belong here. So in that perspective and please tell me if I ramble oh yeah, it's perfect. Okay, so I played football in high school, learned how to play football. I came as a sophomore. What was your position? What did you play? I was a running back and a defensive back.

Speaker 2: 8:59

We ran a lot of power.

Speaker 3: 9:00

So I talk about power all the time I use it now in political, in the political arena, I use it as well. Uh, and then I was on the track team. I was captain of the track team and I joined a band called merging traffic. I I happened to play guitar and sing and, uh, I was in a high school band. It was all about belonging, it was all about assimilating. You know, this is a very, very important thing. I'm not just telling you the story just because it's fun. Yeah, I get it. It's about assimilating.

Speaker 3: 9:27

So I got out, went to college and I joined a fraternity because that's how you assimilate in my mind. I'm thinking about what's America, what's the American dream? I'll answer you. You do a fraternity and I graduated and in 23, I became a US citizen. I'm 23 years old in 1983. So a very proud day in my life. I kind of achieved my goal.

Speaker 2: 9:58

So when you're.

Speaker 3: 9:58

American. What do you do? At least for me, my path was business school, so I got my business school degree and then I worked in venture capital in the life sciences side, because I had been. My first job was selling medical equipment in Asia. Now, why does somebody who speaks three European languages and one Arabic language go to Asia? I don't know. You know we follow our path. And then the next thing, you go to business school so that you become CEO. You start your own company and I lucked out, I became a venture capitalist, uh, and seven years later I started my own firm and did this for 30 years. You mentioned it already, I won't repeat it. And um, uh, when covid happened, I'm a life sciences person and I was doing a project in Spain. I had raised a fund in Barcelona.

Speaker 3: 10:51

I started watching the data very, very early on and I realized that my governor in Nevada was overreacting to all of this and that overreaction was having an impact on human, on normal people. This and that overreaction was having an impact on human, on normal people, and and in my mind, it was beginning to actually slow down normal people's paths to the american dream. I was okay, I could, I could do doordash and I could work on zoom and all these kind of things, but I'm always thinking about where was I 40 years ago and and what would that have done for me 40 years ago? Because that's that's. These are the people that I care about the most. It's like the people that are just beginning to make a path for themselves in America.

Speaker 3: 11:29

I don't mean immigrants I mean just young.

Speaker 2: 11:34

Americans that are just going into their career, starting with whatever job they get to get their experience, and they're taking care of their families. I got it.

Speaker 3: 11:42

Yeah, thank you. Thank you. You exactly get it, and you know what. These, by the way, are the people that accepted me when I first came here. I will never forget that it wasn't the richest people in society and the hedge fund guys. It was the normal down-to-earth work pay your taxes and, you know, live your life. So these are my people, live your life so that these are my people. And I and I realized that that my governor's COVID policies were destroying small restaurants, small businesses, small, you know everything. So I thought, okay, this is a sign I have to get involved. So that's when I decided I was going to run for governor. Wow, great, when you're a venture capitalist, you always think whatever you do is going to work because we invest in companies that cure cancer. So you're crazy.

Speaker 2: 12:29

Well, you know, I mean you came from a war-torn country into America, jumped into a high school, kidded at the locker, jumped in a football team, joined a fraternity. I mean all these things are building resilience in the human being. I mean we all have. Nobody, has, not many people have that kind of intensity and I one of the things I see and I just wanted to bring up at this point because you just talked about it. You tasted war and you many, many recent immigrants and American citizens.

Speaker 2: 12:59

I have a number of clients that are first generation, they're business executives, americans, and they all say the same story on the day that they become citizens, that there's this pride and this feeling that they can't even describe. That I think sometimes we as multi-generation Americans just do not appreciate. I mean, most people have not tasted, unless you're in the military. You haven't tasted war on our soil Other than 9-11, that was a terrible day but other than that we haven't tasted and experienced what that's like and I can't imagine the sweet taste in your mouth that happened when that day happened, when you became an American citizen, and all the experience that happened after that. So that was really well said.

Speaker 3: 13:39

You know again, I never want to stray away from what we're doing here in your interview, but traveling to Europe in my American passport, I was so ecstatic, you know, I was like put it down and just you know it's just the little things. I have so many anecdotes I have to tell you about what being an American means and hopefully we'll have a lot more discussions to me what it means to me. But anyway, I don't want to.

Speaker 2: 14:15

Well, we're right there. Right now these questions are going to come up. We might go in a whole different order. This is a conversation between you and me right now, but I'd love to. I mean, I mean that meaning of that. That. You know, being an American, you know it's like it's been tarnished in a certain way. It's almost feels like, almost like they're a certain group of people want you to feel kind of ashamed about that, you know, or like they think of your patriot is a terrible thing, right. But I tell me, I would love you to share about that. What is that like to really experience that? You know, the way you did.

Speaker 3: 14:51

So I find that the best way to get people to your side is never by being patronizing or, you know, critical and so on.

Speaker 3: 15:04

I find that the best way to get people to your side is to actually engage with them. So who am I to criticize a fourth-generation American who thinks America is a sinful place and a bad place and it was built on the wrong things? I don't want to do that. On the other hand, I have to explain to this person what an incredible place they have been born into and what they take for granted is not what happens out there in the rest of the world, anywhere in the rest of the world, and that's what I spend most of my time on, dave. I spend most of my time on Dave. If I engage with someone who has a bias against the United States and what we stand for. Like you say, patriotism is a bad word I will just explain to them what it means to me and what my background is that's well said and try to move them a little bit to be less self-critical as a nation, and that's what I try to do.

Speaker 2: 16:11

That's beautiful, well said. Yeah, I didn't think that we need more conversations like that, where people have that giving that room to have their point of view and allow it to be what it is. You get to share yours, they get to share theirs, and that's okay. That's what makes us individuals ironically, ironically david.

Speaker 3: 16:28

another thing I found and maybe this is self-selection, so I have to be careful, but when I was on the road, uh, campaigning, uh, the people who understood me the best were not the master's degree in whatever, or my peers, if you like, it was the normal people in the rural areas of nevada, right? Uh, they're like oh yeah, you appreciate america because you, you just got here and you understand what a special place it is. I rarely hear this from my, my friends, who are phds in english at Stanford. I don't hear that from them, right? So it's ironic.

Speaker 2: 17:11

Yeah Well, what led you into I'm just curious, from your career standpoint there's a touch on that what led you into becoming a venture capitalist? What's the why you went in there? What was your first job? And you just got interested and you took the next step, and you took the next step and you took the next step and pretty soon you decided to open your own firm. Is that kind of how it happened, or was there something about it that sparked your passion and your interest in doing that.

Speaker 3: 17:33

So serendipity and being blessed to me is one of the most important things in life. So my first job out of college, again, I was selling medical equipment high-tech medical equipment from the United States for small companies. It was a trading company, so it was small companies that didn't have their own international department, but they were high-tech and I was selling their products in Asia, so Korea all the way down to ASEAN. That was my territory. So I had done, I did a bunch of stuff in China when and China had just opened. So that's how I learned the medical business. So I decided I wanted to be the CEO of a medical company, medical healthcare company, life sciences and I went to University of Chicago because Abbott was there, baxter was there, american Hospital Supply. Now I'm aging myself.

Speaker 2: 18:19

Some of you are my brother worked for both Baxter and American Hospital, supply he was the CEO of Baxter Canada at one point Okay.

Speaker 3: 18:27

So American Hospital Supply was the coolest place, because what I learned when I was in China was that if you are smart enough, carl Bays will let you be a CEO of one of his little companies. I'm like that's exactly what I want to do. I go to Chicago the second year that I do my MBA. Baxter buys American Hospital Supply and you're looking at entrepreneurial call base to Baxter. Need I say more? That was not going to be my thing.

Speaker 3: 19:00

So I totally lucked out and I was doing an internship at a pharmaceutical company called GD Searle in Skokie, illinois. Donald Wansfeld later became the CEO there, but anyway, I was doing that and one of the people I was working with said hey, you're from California, try this thing called venture capital. I'll give you a couple of names of people that we work with, because I was in the business development space at Searle. So he gave me five names and I 100% lucked out with a French gentleman who was Bert-Egan de Léage Jean de Léage, who is now past, but God bless him and we got along, in French, of course, and he hired me and I became a venture capitalist. This way, when you interview from a couple of business schools, it's usually investment banking, consulting some big positions in big corporations Procter, gamble, baxter, etc. But I ended up.

Speaker 3: 20:05

You know I loved venture capital. Just watching it from the outside in was just such. It was like one of the most exciting things and I was amazingly lucky to get in. People don't get in to this business easily and I did, and that's how I became a venture capitalist and I was an associate, then I became a partner and then we decided we split up. The firm got too big, so what? And again, david, I'm all over the map. I really apologize. I think what works best in any business okay, in venture capital what works best is what I call the Navy SEAL model. And the Navy SEAL model is four to six people. Anything above that doesn't work. Anything under that is too small.

Speaker 2: 20:42

Yeah, I get it. I Anything above that doesn't work Anything under.

Speaker 3: 20:44

That is crucial. Yeah, I get it, I get it. So we grew so much at Beregan. We were like 14 partners so we broke it up and very friendly, and as we did break it up, we ended up starting Alta Partners and that was my chance of again the American dream starting my own firm. And then Alta did what you just mentioned earlier. So that's how I ended up in the venture capital world and I used to wake up every morning back then and I'd say, gosh, you know I could be working at Quaker Oats and figuring it out. You know different ways of selling cereal. Or I'm here and I'm investing in a company that hopefully is going to, you know, cure cancer in five years. So I always felt blessed that I had that choice.

Speaker 2: 21:28

That's awesome and I have to say, I work in a number. This is a question for some of those out there that are looking for somebody like you. Not like you particularly, but I've worked in incubators and I always find, when I see entrepreneurial and early stage companies, you know creating their beautiful products or services and you know going into the mystery, what appears like a mysterious policy process to find somebody that will give them the investment they need to take it to the next stage. Clearly, you know those investors are looking for a return on investment to seize an opportunity to match the area of focus and their values. But if you had any advice for out there for and I'm sure you've had this question many times for those out there that are on the path to finding investors, anything you would say from your words of wisdom, there'll be two or three things to keep in mind and to support them in that journey.

Speaker 3: 22:18

Yes, I do. In fact, one of the things the stages of my life now where I feel is that it's about giving back. I spend and I want to spend, even just. You have to have this inner belief, you know. You know, entrepreneurs have to have an irrational belief in themselves, and that's what I want, first and foremost. It's just how it has to be. The second thing is you can't give up. You have to be resilient.

Speaker 3: 22:59

I don't do TED Talks and I don't listen to them, but I heard that one of them was that there's actual data that shows that resilience is the number one sign of success, not intelligence, not luck, not whatever else. They tell you resilience. So you've just got to be able to hang in there and keep going. If you believe yourself, you have good resilience, at some point you'll get where you're going. One thing I would say, though on the path there is people like you, people like me. Come talk to us, because I can tell you the honest truth. I'm not going to. I have nothing to gain by exaggerating. Or if I don't think it's a good idea that's going to work, or if I think that there's something in your traits that doesn't work, I will tell you because I owe you this.

Speaker 3: 23:46

I always owed my entrepreneurs who walked into the door. I was probably the only venture capitalist who, when I rejected people, told them why. And just imagine somebody. Just that's their dream, right? They've just mortgaged the house to start this company and some guy named Guy uh tells you that they don't invest. And then they tell you why and pick the reason. I don't think reimbursement's going to work or FDA is going to be tougher than you think, or whatever it is in my world, and but I always thought that I owed them the reason and I and I would say at the end of that conversation I hope you're right and I'm wrong, and if that's the case, you're buying me dinner in five years when you exit. And so the point is to answer your question when people want to do the two things I mentioned be resilient, believe in yourself, but ask questions from people who will tell you what you don't want to hear.

Speaker 2: 24:46

Yeah, Be willing to take that tough feedback. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:52

Yeah, I love what you said about believing in yourself, and you know, you know belief. Any belief in ourself is irrational because we can't actually find the truth of that. So it's better to believe in irrational beliefs that are over the top about positive things about yourself than the other way around. It's well said, well said anyway. You also. It's interesting. I love that you're also this philanthropist and I was looking at, I was looking into your philanthropy and that you are the co-founder of the Barcelona Music Tour and a sponsor and mentor of Rickestra Rickestra. Is that right, Rikestra? Give me your Rikestra Rikestra. Okay, thank you for that.

Speaker 2: 25:31

It's a student-run cover band that has done an annual tour in Spain since 2014, and they specialize in soul, dance and Stevie Wonder, the Beatles, Maroon 5, Bruno Mars, and I saw the video of you with the band on on stage and doing the tour. I had to say that, uh, you know what? What drew you to that? You're a musician. I would imagine that's what drew you to the project. But how did you just quick? How did you find that? And and that must have been a ton of fun.

Speaker 3: 25:57

So so, so, sadly, sadly. Nothing is ever quick and and my thing and again feel free to interrupt always. So I played in a band when I was in high school and just always had the bug. My sophomore year in college, I actually was working in Los Angeles for a summer and I had an opportunity to take it to the next step do an album, go on tour, et cetera. So I went to my dad that summer. At the end of the summer I said you know, I'm not going to go back to Stanford. I think I'm going to be a rock and roll star. I'm going to go for that.

Speaker 2: 26:37

I'm sure he'd love that.

Speaker 3: 26:40

Thank you your reactions. Maybe I don't have to continue the story. Anyway, my dad said you do this and I disown you. I was like, okay, I came back to college and really just cut back a lot on my music things. I focused fast forward 40 years. I'm now 54 years old and I'm working out at the Reiki Center, which I'm going to give them a quick pitch here.

Speaker 3: 27:06

It's a center that was started by a gentleman whose name is Gary Reikies, where children of all ages, all races, all backgrounds. It happens to be located between Atherton and Redwood City, east Menlo Park, so you actually do get a great mixture of the richest people and the not richest people. But once you walk in that door, it doesn't matter what your background is. You are the most important person in the world. You, a 12-year-old boy or girl, most important person in the world. We don't have any goals. What goals do you have? Is what matters? No limits, no limits, no labels. It's about loving you, to become the best person you can be.

Speaker 3: 27:48

So I was supporting that Center by working out there, because they have a workout, that music, and they have video and nature, therefore programs. So I thought I work out here and the energy of the kids anyway is just amazing. And that work out there. What the heck.

Speaker 3: 28:03

One day I'm working out and I pay the trainer and I pay the fees and all this. I hear music, I go. What's going on with the music? They go. Oh, we have a music program, I go. Really, I thought you guys were a workout place. Oh no, no, we have a music program and people play and they come and perform. I said, oh, I used to play music, he goes. Well, if you want, you can come in. On every other Thursday we have open mic. You can come in and you play a song. I'm like that would be interesting. In my mind, I was already thinking I want to go back and play in Europe, because when I was a student in Europe, I was touring the south of France and I was like I want to play here. I want to play rock and roll, beach Boys.

Speaker 2: 28:38

South of France. The Beach Boys it goes together well. Shout out to France and the Beach Boys. It goes together well.

Speaker 3: 28:43

I was going to teach. So I show up and you don't get to practice. You get one practice and then you play the song in front of an audience. So they did Ticket to Ride by the Beatles played it, had a great time and your accompanying band is the kids in that environment. So about a week later you probably saw it on the website I walked into the head of the music department.

Speaker 3: 29:05

I said I have a crazy idea. He goes, what is it? I've always wanted to play in the south of France. I was going to get a bunch of middle-aged guys like me to go there, but why don't I just take the kids instead? And he said that is a crazy idea. Let's go talk to the boss, gary Reiches, and Gary Reiches goes. Let's go talk to the boss, gary Reiches, and Gary Reiches goes. That's the best crazy idea I've ever heard. So next thing, you know the Reichestra was born. I sponsored the whole thing from beginning to end, and these kids have the most formative experience. Between 16 and 19 years old is what they are. They run the program. Anyway, I can expand on this, but that's how I ended up there. The Beatles, rolling Stones section of the songs is me, the other things are the kids and it's a balance. You know how we do it.

Speaker 2: 29:55

They got to have a balance. I can't imagine that 16 to 19-year-old phase in life, how that experience has got to be indelible in their nervous system. We'll never forget it. And the ability to run the show and learn leadership, while having fun in the south of France playing the Beach Boys and the Beatles and Maroon 5. That sounds like a blast. That sounds like a blast.

Speaker 3: 30:17

So we moved it to Barcelona because it was more fun, and now we go to a city. So we've done nine years in a city called Sigis, which is south of Barcelona Amazing place. And now we are a fixture, Like people come back every year and you know it's incredible. So great experience. And again, the kids. It's about development and it's about mental and emotional and taking care of each other. All the rules of the center apply there. Every person is the most important person in the world and that's how we try to make it work. So easier said than done, but but it's, it's an incredible experience.

Speaker 2: 30:58

That's great. I want to start transitioning a little bit into the political and the election world here and in preparation for today's show, I did watch one of your interviews on Nevada Newsmakers after you had stepped out of the race and supported the other candidate and I and I and one of the things you said on there which I thought was very powerful is that running on there, which I thought was very powerful. Is that running? They ask you you're a venture capitalist. How do you look at that investment of investing and running for governor, which you know you don't know what happened, because you didn't make it and you said it was the least regrettable money I've ever spent and you know, for being a venture capitalist, it's saying a lot. So why was it the least regrettable money you ever spent on your own campaign to run for governor? He didn't go there, but I want to go there a little bit just real quick.

Speaker 3: 31:55

Yeah, so in life, with my bias, there are probably in my world, with my bias, there are probably in my world, three areas that I'm very involved in where the margin between winning and losing is this little. And that area is venture capital, where you know in my case, clinical trials, you know five patients go one way or not. You have a successful drug or you don't. You know Sports, where it's a game of inches when we talk about football, right and analytics, and basketball and analytics and baseball and even soccer now is big on analytics. So that's another one where the margins are tiny. But also in politics where you know 2,000 voters in Michigan will decide this election or 10,000 voters in Michigan will decide this election or 10,000 voters in Pennsylvania will decide the election. So I like tiny margin areas in life and that was one of the ones that I got involved in.

Speaker 3: 32:55

I've always wanted public service. I wanted to be a diplomat when I was in college, but they told me if you want to be a diplomat when I was in college, but they told me, if you want to be a diplomat in the United States, become a successful businessman, donate money to a campaign and then you can be a diplomat. So I took that for granted because the person who told me was actually somebody who was a diplomat. So I was on public service and we talked about the American dream and we talked about giving back, and for me, it was never about politics and issues, believe it or not. It was about becoming governor of Nevada and make it the best run state in the union and make the people of Nevada not even think that they have a state government, because things happen so easily the MV goes smoothly, anything you need to do with your permitting goes smoothly, your healthcare is taken care of. Everybody's got the same thing across the board. So it's also about governance. Never, never about politics.

Speaker 3: 33:51

And that's why I say that, because the people that I met across the state the enthusiasm, dave, I was getting it's funny, I couldn't fundraise from the big money people, but I was getting thousands of $25 checks from retired people and how humbling is that that someone who barely has the money, especially in 2022, where inflation and all these great things that the current administration has the gifts that they've given us it was so humbling. And my personal thing was, if that person made a check and I was going to be in their county. I invited them to come and watch me when I spoke and then I spent time with them, and that's even more humbling because they pray for you, they care about you, they care about this country, they care about their families and children and grandchildren. So, return on investment I just realized one more time what an amazing country this is and how amazing the people of this country are. So, yeah, that was the easiest money I spent.

Speaker 2: 34:58

Because that experience of having those checks and the people praying for you and pulling for you and getting what you're up to and you're you are up to like really seeing government and government as of and for and by and trying to make that customer service king and the state government said that people felt there is a, there's an ease in which they did transactions where they didn't even feel like transactions Right. They felt they felt, they felt served, they felt served, they felt served.

Speaker 3: 35:24

I wanted to be the Nordstroms of governors.

Speaker 2: 35:29

I like that. Well, I hope there's a future for you there, so we'll pull for you. But let me get straight to it and relate to that and you already started going there a little bit with some of your comments there you already started going there a little bit with some of your comments there what are the most significant differences between how this presidential election outcome will impact America and its citizens?

Speaker 3: 35:55

In other words, what are the key issues that you think will significantly be shifted one way or the other depending on our choice. Yeah, so it's very sad to me to watch the polarization of our country right now and, as a political wonk, it's very interesting to me that 20% of people decide which direction the country goes, and to me, my goal is to educate that 20% of people. I think the polarization means that people are set in their ways. There's a, I would say that the left in the United States is very attracted to social democracy a la Europe, and the right in the United States still believes in the American exception, as good or as weak as that can be, in the exception which is the free markets, and you know free markets have winners and losers, you know it's just how it goes, and so it's a thing about going forward, which is for me, with my experience, we can look more like France and I don't say it in a negative way. I mean I'm part French and I speak French and I'm fluent and I'm Francophone, you know or we can continue.

Speaker 3: 37:13

The American exception, it's that simple, and the American exception means that a 15-year-old who comes from Lebanon or a 21-year-old who comes from Korea, the 21-year-old from Korea can come in, become a PhD, teach at MIT, and you're not going to do this overseas. It's not going to happen in France. Okay, it's the exception. Over here it's the rule. The exception is, yes, he and Nora, probably in France, because he has a background in the relationships and so on probably could have done well, gone to one of the big schools, whatever and done well, but not the average person and in this country the average person that comes in legally is important. You know we have legal laws and illegal immigration is an important thing Can do it. So these are the two visions that we have, and what we're fighting for is what happens in the two visions.

Speaker 3: 38:17

We're at an inflection point which, by the way, is why you're getting involved. We're at an inflection point which, by the way, is why you're getting involved. We're at an inflection point where we can go either way and it's the people's choice, but I feel it's my job to educate people that are making that choice, and I've taken a side, obviously.

Speaker 2: 38:34

Well, okay, good, but going into education, you know, I think that you could say there is a lot of. I mean, I understand the social side of it as well, taking care of people that have had a tough time or, you know, that are in a situation where they haven't been able to have access to some of the things you're speaking about. But I also think that's the government's responsibility and accountability to make sure in our school systems, people are educated to what the opportunities are and are provided with access to those opportunities in every school system. Right? Of course, I'm getting into a place of you know, we're talking education now and I'm out of my league a little bit.

Speaker 2: 39:12

But for the simplicity of what you put your attention on is what grows. So, if your attention is on what's wrong and how we're separated and how we're different, which we are, and the beautiful thing you shared, and it's a beautiful thing in the melting pot, I think most people get that right, unless we start really separating people and saying you get this, you don't get this, whatever. But again, that's a, it's a, you're right, it's a philosophical difference in perspective. Um, you know. So I mean, what's your thoughts on that? As far as you know how do we have to do a better job of giving access to people to understanding how to take advantage of this place they live.

Speaker 3: 39:55

You know, the beauty about this republic is that the system is in place and it's called 50 states that should be able to do any way they want to do the things that they want to do, and then the rest of the states can either copy, based on what their people want or not. So you mentioned education. A lot of states have now given education choice. So in 10 years we will have data on these states and we will have data about where people went with the choice that they were given and how their children did, depending on the choices that they made. Today, what I know is that public education is a mess and we keep throwing more money at it and it's not getting better and when.

Speaker 3: 40:48

I was running.

Speaker 3: 40:49

I actually because I'm a numbers guy. If you look at some of these school districts in our country, something like 62 cents on the dollar goes to administration and 48 goes to education, like education of kids' classroom. Something is wrong with that system. That's not working, so that has to be. But now we have states with school choice, we're going to know exactly how much every student gets and we're going to see the outcomes. So just imagine if we do this with every big political social issue that's out there, and then we have data and we have the experience. Now, if the federal government starts forcing states to do certain things, that doesn't work and that's what I'm fighting back on, which is let's keep this amazing system the way it is and then, based on how it looks like, let's adjust, and that's how I think the federal government should be working, not the other way around.

Speaker 2: 41:51

Absolutely. It's a constitutional republic, and what you're saying is we have a federal government that kind of holds certain things together military economic policy, things like that hold certain things together military economic policy, things like that and then you have the states. That can be places you can go to live because they have a particular way of operating that serves you as an individual and you can express yourself through that expression and it can be unique for each state, and that's the freedom that's beautiful about this country.

Speaker 3: 42:20

It's incredible, right? So I'm going to use a very quick example here COVID, california and Nevada shut down everything for a year and a half and Florida did not. Okay, let's look at which states have better educational outcomes, which states' children have more mental health issues because they were not free. I mean, there's so much data we can come up with and say okay, we think that the overreaction was an overreaction. Let's hope we don't do this the next time and definitely let's not punish anybody for doing what they had done, because that's what that's how our republic works, you know. So that to me, that's a perfect example, and by the way, yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 43:10

No, I was just saying. You know that people vote with their feet too. If they don't like what's going on in their state, they can move right. A lot of people have moved to florida because of that. A lot of people have moved out of other states like california because because I'm going to say anything bad or wrong, but because they decided this is not working for me and I don't like the crime rate or I don't like the taxation or I don't like the regulations. I don't feel safe as an free, as an opportunity. Let me go to Oklahoma or Nevada or Florida and try it there, because it looks like that's more aligned with what I want to do as a human being. So we have the ability to do that.

Speaker 3: 43:45

It's really yeah, and the difference? Again, I'm all about efficiency and good governance rather than politics, but there is a difference, a slight difference, here, which is that my side, when it comes to what we just discussed, believes in that freedom of vote with your feet and do what you want. The other side is a little bit more heavy handed about. No, I want Oklahoma to be the same as California and I'm like no, they're different people, they don't have to be the same. Let's not force them to be the same.

Speaker 2: 44:21

Yeah, yeah, and it is a matter of choice. And the question is is do we know, does, does the if, if the other side gets what it wanted? Will we, will they be happy with the outcomes? That's also the border, for example. What are your thoughts on what's happened at the border? I mean, as I look, you know, maybe this is my perspective and I've kind of like had a late wake up call to some of this, the recognition of a lack of appreciation for what I had during COVID. I recognize this is different, the way I'm experiencing. I live in Minnesota where the lockdowns are pretty harsh and even they had, you know, call on your neighbor if you see him outside. And you know, it felt like a little weird to be an American. Not that I was called on, I was good, I was good but you know, it's like it's a weird kind of thing to have this experience of people are watching me and stuff like that, so it feels restrictive in that way.

Speaker 3: 45:31

So David the Stasi did that. Okay, that's what these German police were doing. People were calling on their neighbors. How could we ever? And my answer is humans are humans. They're going to do this. It's up to the leadership to ever not put humans in that position.

Speaker 3: 45:51

And of course, you had your governor was as bad as California, as bad as my governor at the time. So I can see it. But to your question about the border, I look at it two ways and I would love to have a smart debate with someone who's not emotional on the other side, who can actually make cases. So my two things about the borders A, we as a world have evolved, so we have this thing. World have evolved, so we have this thing called the nation state and the nation state. One of the biggest things about nation states is borders and internal security and controlling who gets in and who gets out. That's why we have to show our passports when we get in. So it's incredibly odd for me that there is a segment of the population here that's in power today, by the way, that feels that it's okay to dilute the essence of what this country is about. Okay, I don't understand it because the nation state by definition. I don't understand it, because the nation state by definition is controlling your borders and controlling who gets in.

Speaker 3: 47:34

So that's the impact going to be on the social services, schools, hospitals, the library and on and on. So it's so how do you expect an efficiently run city that was small to be run the same efficiently for its people? We go back to always for its people, because that's what it's about when you just have tilted the balance so much about stress on resources. And the third thing is, when I was running for governor, people would say what are you going to do about the border? The reality is that as a governor, I can't do anything about the border. It's not a state issue, it's a federal issue. But you can't say that to people because you don't want to sound like you're not listening to their concerns.

Speaker 3: 48:26

But I'm very disappointed in our political establishment all sides. The last time we had the immigration reform was my gosh, I think 30, 40 years ago. Well, our immigration laws have to reflect today's world and they need to be changed to reflect today's world, and then they need to be followed very, very, very, very tightly. So I see this as a problem of the political establishment, I see this as a problem of resource allocation and I see this as a problem of what does it mean to be a nation if anybody can come and go? And, by the way, why are you the only place in the world that's doing this?

Speaker 2: 49:14

Right.

Speaker 2: 49:15

Well it's akin to a family in their house. They have their house right. We want to help the homeless population, but are we going to let unvetted people come into our home and take our resources? It's similar to that. Like when you put it to a personal level, people get a little bit more connected to it. I mean to me I look at what's happened and I mean I also look at the comments that have been made recently by Kamala Harris that we've been on this since the day one in our administration and I just I mean I feel like, well, I think you repealed a lot of things.

Speaker 2: 49:51

And if you talk to, if you actually talk to border agents although they say they do, they say they've never seen anything like this, never in their history being in the border. They've never, ever seen. It's basically an open border policy and we are Uber drivers, not protectors of the border. We are taking people in Stories I mean again, this is what gets to my heart Stories of children being escorted into the country with people they knew they weren't their parents, they knew they were probably going into child trafficking and the border patrol had to keep their hands off. We're told, just let them through. And to me that's coming from border patrol agents that I heard in interviews. I've watched these interviews and they were heartbroken to have to do this.

Speaker 2: 50:35

So that's the reality of the situation, and I don't think people are seeing, and that's what. Well, I don't want to get too angry here, but that's what makes me angry is that we're at least tell us what your policy is. If it's open borders, catch and release, and that's what you're promising. Don't say something different than it is. Be honest about it and let the chips fall where they may. That's all. That's all I want. So is that fair? I don't know.

Speaker 3: 51:01

I think that's what all Americans want, and you're right. There will be a segment of the population that will say, yeah, that's fine, I'm all for this, I'll vote for that. But if you're a minority, if you're only 20% of the population and 80% of the population thinks otherwise, no, that's not how it's going to work. It shouldn't be how it works. By the way, you know free markets. You and I are big free markets guy. You realize how efficient the free markets are, that some person in pick your country in the world decides they're just going to get themselves to Tijuana and use an app to come into the United States. That's free markets man.

Speaker 2: 51:38

Yeah, that's the flow of information Worldwide. We got technology supporting it, right, we got yeah and the yeah, so we'll stop. We'll stop there. I mean, I think that's to me so, that were. So what we're voting for is open borders policy, whether or not, whether or not that changes with it, with Kamala stepping in versus Biden, but she hasn't separated herself from him, or we're going to close our borders and use the immigration, the legal immigration process. If you're going to come into this country.

Speaker 3: 52:10

That's the choice.

Speaker 2: 52:16

And hopefully with reform, so that we can adjust our immigration laws to today's world. Yeah right. Well, another area is war, right, and you talked about the, the, your experience of being 15 and joining forces and being in that experience, which you know. It sounded like it was a righteous move for you, something that was important to you, but it was war and there is a there is. We had a total decision first time in you know, 50 years or something, that we had a president with Donald Trump, where there were no wars that we were embroiled in, and now we're certainly caught up in Ukraine.

Speaker 2: 52:52

I mean, the Israeli thing might have happened who knows if he would have been president but there's a cost to war in our world, right, that we don't see, I think sometimes. I mean, I live in a city where we have signs on the lawn supporting Ukrainians and I can understand that heartfelt desire, but, at the same time, what we're doing is we're supporting perpetuation of war. And what's the cost of that to us? I mean, versus sitting down and resolving something that feels like it could have been resolved back in April of 2021, but it was stopped. What's the cost of keeping that going?

Speaker 3: 53:36

So I'm going to go on a slight tangent, but I will answer the question.

Speaker 3: 53:40

Whatever you want to do with that to go on a slight tangent, but I will answer the question. Whatever you want to do with that, you know, whether we like it or not, we're the big kid on the block, and when you're the big kid on the block, you have a responsibility. I find that the left Obama-Biden foreign policy apparatus is not comfortable with our power and is not comfortable with what we can and can't do and how we can and cannot do it. That confusion is reflected as a sign of lack of resolve by other people. It's the same thing as when you're sitting in a boardroom and the people that you coach.

Speaker 3: 54:28

Dave, if you create a vacuum, someone is going to fill it in an organization. So we create this vacuum because we're uncomfortable with our power as a nation under these administrations. And when you have just imagine, you know you have a different administration, like we had with President Trump, and for four years you had people coming in, walking into the room and saying if you do something, we might respond. It's not. If you do something, we don't know how it's going to happen and you do what you think is right. There was no ambiguity. It's like you know Trump told the Iranians you touch one American and I'm incinerating the whole. Thing.

Speaker 3: 55:19

Okay, now whether you mean it or not, whether it's, you know you're going to do it or not. You planted that seed versus Biden telling Putin well, you know, if you want to go back, and you know, take a piece of East Ukraine. You know, yeah, east Ukraine, you know we'll see what happens. And then he sends an airplane to pick up Zelensky and take him into exile. What kind of you know.

Speaker 3: 55:48

So I wish I hadn't made that analogy, but what I'm saying is they are uncomfortable with American power and being the big kid on the block, and we are not. We take our power seriously. We know we're the big kid on the block and we know that we can use it in leverage in negotiations. Whereas, why do they negotiate with Iran? You don't have to negotiate with Iran. We're 10 times bigger and stronger than they are. What's the meaning of negotiating with Iran? Well, they're going to say, yeah, but they have to be players in the area because they're one of the powers. No, they'll be players in the area when they want all the powers. No, there'll be players in the area when they want to, when they do what we think is right. It's that.

Speaker 2: 56:29

That was my tangent. No, no, I think it's beautiful. I never saw that angle, that they were uncomfortable with the power, maybe almost even ashamed or whatever, of it. I don't know what it was. We shouldn't be exerting this. We shouldn't be exerting this when we have it.

Speaker 2: 56:43

You, you know and that's what I thought that that President Trump did and as I went in retrospect, I didn't vote for him either election until now, because I wasn't sure. But I recognized, after doing my research and getting over my, my irrational beliefs about something, in this case him and did my research and I realized, wow, he he was. He was a very good manager of our foreign policy, excellent manager of our foreign policy and our foreign relations, and just as a case study of those two examples is we have two wars, maybe a third one, who knows?

Speaker 3: 57:22

You have North Korea sending troops to we're here. To Russia now to fight against the Ukrainians versus the Abraham Accord, to Russia now to fight against the Ukrainians versus the Abraham Accord. You and I are old enough that no one ever thought there would be some form of peace in the Middle East, and Jared Kushner and the rest of the establishment on the Trump campaign and on the Trump administration created peace between five countries in the Middle East and Israel and, by the way, bahrain would do nothing without Saudi Arabia's blessings. So we know that the Saudis were in on that as well. So think about that. Why?

Speaker 3: 58:04

Because you walk in, you know what you want, you're a good negotiator and you're not scared of your power. You're not uncomfortable with who and what you want. You're a good negotiator and you're not scared of your power. You're not. You're not uncomfortable with who and what you are. By the way, if you're uncomfortable with your power on that side, that means you're also uncomfortable with the nation in general. That means you let people come across the border. Yeah, exactly, all kind of makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because you dilute the, the place that you don't like the power of, you're not comfortable the power is somewhere, somewhere, somewhere is going to want to dilute the place that you don't like the power of, you're not comfortable with the power. Someone, somewhere is going to want to dilute it even more. So there is a connection and that's kind of the difference between one side and the other Right.

Speaker 2: 58:41

Well said, I have a couple of big, another big chunks, a couple of big more chunks to go through, and then we'll let you go, but you, but as a finance expert, as a person that's a venture capitalist, what's your perspective on the factors that led to the rise in inflation in this country? And is it about the?

Speaker 2: 58:57

price gouging. Is it about people price gouging or was it fiscal policy that created it? How do we reach this point and how do you believe Donald Trump's policies can actually fix it in a fairly short period of time?

Speaker 3: 59:14

So when I was running it turns out was the peak of the Biden administration's economic policies were being passed right then and there. So the first thing I was saying on the stump was if you pass this inflation reduction act with all the spending that's in it, you're going to create brutal inflation Because we've already passed one package before that was incredibly inflationary and you're only going to make things worse. So you can follow any people can follow what I was saying back then about that subject. It's basic economics 101. You spend as a government that much money. You're going to create inflation. It's that simple. Too much money is chasing too few goods, demand and supply. So I warned them. And then, if you looked at it, it had nothing to do with inflation. It had everything to do with the environment and it's well-intentioned. But you see, you probably saw the data that you know. They had $40 billion for urban I mean rural internet. They've deployed zero. They had billions and billions of dollars for electric stations. They've done seven.

Speaker 3: 1:00:40

The government is not efficient. The people that work for the government are not efficient. You want to get these things done, you're going to get them better done, but that's a lot of spending. So that goes back to the inflation. So inflation was a self-wound that they did. Then they told us it was transitionary and so on and so forth. I was going crazy because I was running a campaign at the time and watching this was just so painful when you can predict what's going to happen and you know who. Inflation hurts my people, the fixed cost people that are making a little bit on social security and a little bit off of their fixed income investments. That's who you're killing with inflation, thank you very much. Also, the middle class and the lower middle classes. That's who gets killed with inflation. So that's what they did with inflation. That was their policy. So it was a environmental Green Deal thing camouflaged under inflation, being done by an incompetent.

Speaker 2: 1:01:33

Well, that was the Inflation Reduction Act. Right, that was, that was, that was it. They called it the Inflation.

Speaker 2: 1:01:37

Reduction Act, but it had all this investment in the environment and obviously this is again to me. To me, that's OK, yeah, that's OK, but you know they also had to print a bunch of money to cover it all too. There was a bunch of money that had to be printed to cover it all. We actually increased our currency way more than we have in a long time by dumping currency into the market, which also exasperated it. That's where my expertise stops. I understand. When you do that, it's like pouring water into tea. You're going to dilute it, You're going to dilute the power of the currency. It's just common sense.

Speaker 2: 1:02:16

And I know that they're trying to maybe do good things in their eyes, but when you do things like we're going to call this an Inflation Reduction Act, which is simply a marketing term, so they get this through. It was also with the border bill, which they're berating Trump for. Pushing against was a $118 billion bill. $20 billion was for border, $98 billion was for Israel and Ukraine. So if I look at those numbers, you're calling it the border bill, but it's not. It's a foreign investment bill and the numbers tell you what you care about. The number again goes back to the raw common sense numbers say $98 billion for some split between Ukraine and Israel I don't know what that was and $20 billion for the border to get some more agents tired. And oh, by the way, there's an executive order built in that Biden can stop all that through executive order. Exactly, yeah. So that's why the bill didn't pass muster. It wasn't because Trump wanted to make a political statement. That's what people don't realize about that one. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:03:29

Also, they called it a bipartisan bill. They had one at the time. They had one, you know, just James Lansford from Oklahoma working with them on it. They flooded the zone at the last they did nothing with him. I mean I'm getting wonkish, but they didn't show him anything until December and once the rest of the Republicans read it. By the way, do you know that it had amnesty for like 180,000 people a month or some crazy number?

Speaker 2: 1:03:54

No 1.8 million a year still could get into the country.

Speaker 3: 1:03:57

So how is that a bill, meanwhile? Okay. So what I like about what you said. The average American can look at $118 billion and say, oh, 98 went outside and only 20 went for the border. But they're telling me they're for the border. I'm an average thinking person and I don't spend a lot of time on this stuff, but boy, it doesn't pass the smell test.

Speaker 2: 1:04:19

Yeah, that's the dishonesty part that gets me crazy. Just tell us what you did, if that's what you feel I could do, just be honest about it. Just be honest about it. Let's see if the votes fall your way.

Speaker 3: 1:04:33

Great, just be honest about it. Let's see, let's see if you get the, if the votes fall your way, great, just be honest about it. Yeah, exactly, and I think, uh, the other thing too that's important here is that on you know, uh, vice president talks about day one. Do you know that day one that they came in, they actually, by executive order, took away all of trump's border policies? They won, they won. They didn't even wait like 48 hours.

Speaker 3: 1:04:52

Right, exactly so they have no credibility with me on the border and other things, but just the border here.

Speaker 2: 1:04:59

Yeah, well, I want to turn to Donald Trump a little bit, because you know him personally. You actually spoke at one of his recent rallies in was it California?

Speaker 2: 1:05:08

you were in Isarino rallies in California. You were in yeah In Nevada Great. And now he's undoubtedly a lightning rod and if you look at the definition of authenticity in the dictionary, you know he is himself. You know, and sometimes it's maddening for me too, but you get a little more prepared for that. But ultimately I have grown to really appreciate him. But you know him. There's a lot of people that just viscerally dislike him and I would like you to talk a little bit about what you know about him, what you feel is you know in his heart, and how has he demonstrated to you that he's consistent with what he cares about? And what does he care about? If you could share a little bit about that.

Speaker 3: 1:05:57

That's a great question, dave, and it's probably where you've got me thinking the most, because, just like you, I bought although I was always, you know, I love the policies. I bought the persona that people were talking about, and I wrote it off to two things as a venture capitalist I wrote it off to New Yorker and I wrote it off to CEO, you know, and I wrote it off to actually the industry and when you're in real estate Commercial real- estate is not a touchy-feely industry.

Speaker 2: 1:06:36

I've coached people in that industry. It falls away.

Speaker 3: 1:06:39

It's tough yeah yeah, yeah, it's tough. So in my mind, I agree with the policies and I understand the persona is a caricature of what people want that person to be, based on their background. Even back then, before I had met him, I always would tell myself I judge people based on the results and I judge people based on the family that they raised. And I look at that family and those children and like I'm very impressed, ivanka is a very impressed young lady right.

Speaker 3: 1:07:25

So he did something right. That was again. My thought was okay. Now I look at the policies also and I'm like man cutting two regulations for everyone that you pass. That's my language because I work with the FDA and reimbursement HHS. I'm overly regulated as an industry and you're going to take two out every time you pass one. So policy is 100% Personality. You can't raise great kids if you're not doing something right. And then I saw the convention where his granddaughter spoke.

Speaker 3: 1:07:58

That was beautiful she was like he's just a regular granddad. He gives me candy on the side when my mom's not watching. So I warmed up. But then I met him. That's the key. And I'm a venture person. I know in three minutes whether you're someone I'm going to invest in or not. I've got to do my homework. But if you're investable, you know in three minutes.

Speaker 3: 1:08:19

And again, I was just so taken aback at the perception people had created of this cocky, narcissistic in your face and the incredibly gracious gentleman who shook my hand and I said I want to work in your administration and he said let's win this and we can talk about it. Total grace. He had a couple of seconds minutes to talk to me. That was it, grace. I could feel that he was listening and to me, that was the stage where I thought, okay, they're wrong. I mean, look, we're humans. We tend to want to hate sometimes and I know a lot of people on my side didn't like Obama, didn't like Biden, can't stand Harris. That's human. I understand it. I don't do that. I try to keep my emotions out of the way. I just look at how competent somebody is and how human they are. These are the two things I look for and how human they are. These are the two things I look for. Well, he passed both tests in my book.

Speaker 2: 1:09:32

Those are good measures.

Speaker 3: 1:09:33

I went, you know, would you hire him as a CEO? I could tell you that in 16, 17, I wasn't sure because there was high turnover In 18, 19, I was like, heck, yeah, I'm about results, I don't care, turnover okay. One of the most successful we're going to talk about sports successful coaches that I know is Jim Harbaugh, and the guy creates turnover like I've never seen, but he wins. So again to me by 2018, 2019, yes, I would have him as my CEO and right now I would have him as my uncle.

Speaker 2: 1:10:06

Yeah, yeah, I mean, that was my experience when I began to listen to him and watch him and videos engaging with you know you had black. He had a black empowerment event at the White House with teenagers and I watched him engage and he was fully present. And executive presence is one of the things that I work on with leaders a lot. Presence is one of the things that I work on with leaders a lot, and it's not about just looking a certain way and acting. It's about coming from a core within yourself that you're solid in and letting that be in the moment. And I see him have that and I can see him fall in love with people sometimes. He genuinely appreciates people and he seems to appreciate, like you said, they're my people, the people that are getting through their social security check. He seems to relate to the common folk very, very effectively and in a real way.

Speaker 2: 1:11:02

Not everybody thinks he's duping them, but I think he's genuine when he's connecting with people.

Speaker 3: 1:11:08

I've seen it again he's genuine when he's connecting with people. I've seen it. So I've seen it. Where, again, you see, what people don't understand is we just mentioned the negatives about the real estate, commercial real estate world. The positives are you're spending your whole life with blue-collar workers that build buildings and the plumbers Construction plumbers yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:11:31

And they come from all races and all colors and all creeds and the president relates to them. Like you said, david, you said something. As a coach, I want to acknowledge Present, because I work very hard on my presence Not presence, like you said, but present right here. Right here, I feel you. I'm in a board meeting and you have an issue that you're discussing, or I'm in an employee meeting and somebody has an issue they're discussing. I want to feel them and President Trump will do this. He does this at rallies of the 10,000 people. He will pick the latest rally in Reno. There was a crying baby behind him. People were like shh, he turns around and goes I love babies, show me the baby. Don't you worry Babies, don't worry me. You know what. You'll be proud of this baby. I'm proud that you're here today. Bam, just like that. Again, that comes from the heart. That's not something you can. You don't create this. I had a another meeting with him and I'm sorry.

Speaker 3: 1:12:36

I'm you know it's good cheerleading. I had a meeting with him and and you know I'll keep it as much HIPAA as I can young girl, 13 years old, with cancer. Out of a group of maybe like 150 people, he walks in the door. No one said to him hey, go watch, go talk to this girl because she's going to be in the audience. First person he talks to is her First person. And I went to her afterwards and I said how cool was it to meet the president? Because I didn't meet him at that meeting. I just kind of waved and she started crying. Now you don't cry if someone just brushed off you or walked by you and just said hey, you know, you cry because they felt you. Yeah, and I gave her a big hug. They were present and it was present again. So so I can't say enough.

Speaker 3: 1:13:27

Um, by the way, people tell me a lot of my volleyball friends tell me why are you doing all of this? Why are you running for stuff? And the answer is because I want to serve President. Trump can golf every day, he can fly all over the world, he has an amazing family, amazing grandchildren. He could take them to Bora Bora and he can take the whole family on vacation. No, he's running. He almost got killed and yet he's still running. Do you think he's running for his ego? Come on, guys, there's so many other ways we can boost our ego in our lives as people like us. He's running because he cares. He's running because of the same reason you and I just talked about. You're just realizing that we are at a crucial juncture in our country's history.

Speaker 2: 1:14:25

And the people, you know, everybody, the 80 percent and the curve could of the other side is to smear, break down. You know, I mean before he ran for president, everybody wanted his endorsement, everyone wanted him to come to his weddings. Everybody was like and now it's like, this is what they do. This is probably the nature of politics. This is the nature of politics I don't like is you can go here and they are very good at canceling people. I look at what happened to Tulsi. You know, I think one of the greatest political leaders in our world right now is Tulsi Gabbard and what's happened to her is just heartbreaking because you know she's on a JFK level. I think you know she's at that level of potential leadership and I don't know if we need political leaders that want to be there for the sake of service.

Speaker 2: 1:15:17

Going back to your point for the sake of service, not for the sake of power or ideology, and that's the other choice, and I'm going to probably leave it there, give you a few more comments, but to me it's got to be about serving the American people. You are there to serve. You're not there to forward your ideology unless you're going to be transparent about it and let the American people know why this is good for them. But don't rename an act, the Inflation Reduction Act, or do a border bill that isn't taking care of those things.

Speaker 2: 1:15:49

But the percentage that you're it's the weight of the work is that and I would say this is as studying the ontology of language is one of my, my, my students. Language is very powerful, but without being grounded in fact and supported by action, it's weightless. It means nothing, and what I believe that's happened is the left has gotten very good at using language without a lot of facts tied to it and with actions that go in the opposite direction of what they say, which is an integrity issue for me. So I mean I'll leave it there. I don't want to be too judgmental. That's what I see from a, from a, from a sober looking at what's happening.

Speaker 3: 1:16:36

So my hope is that your awakening is going to be the awakening of millions of people in our country, because again you are doing your thing, playing by the rules, paying your taxes, and then you one day you said wait a minute, this is not good. So I hope that happens to millions of people, and that's my goal. I don't know if you knew this, but three days ago I was a moderator at an event that Tulsi was at. Did you know that? Okay, I heard that. Don't worry, she's tough.

Speaker 2: 1:17:06

She is.

Speaker 3: 1:17:06

She is tough, she's amazing.

Speaker 2: 1:17:07

Yeah, she is, she is tough.

Speaker 3: 1:17:07

She's amazing. Yeah, If she's my defense secretary one day, I'm going to know we're fine all over the world.

Speaker 2: 1:17:18

I would be fully okay with that. I'd be fully okay with that, and if someday she's my president, I'll be really okay with that too.

Speaker 3: 1:17:26

So oh, good, but she was yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:17:29

No, go ahead, Go ahead, just finish your thought she, she was amazing.

Speaker 3: 1:17:33

Um, I, the breadth of her knowledge, uh, her presence, um, yeah, she, I God. I remember sitting, I was moderating, she was to my left and, uh, Senator Mark Wayne Mullen from Oklahoma was one one over. I remember thinking in my own head okay, that's my secretary of defense. I, you know, I, I'm going to be just fine with this, we're going to be so. You know, the Houthis and all these people over there, Good luck, Good luck, Good luck.

Speaker 2: 1:18:01

Good luck. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she'll. And he and again he. He's not afraid to have people that may not completely agree with, but they're competent and they lead. That's what he wants.

Speaker 3: 1:18:13

She would have done well in the Apprentice that one, yes, and, by the way, with your coaching, we coach people to hire people that are better than you are if you can hire people that you don't 100% agree with all the time. I know that the and I'm getting wonkish I know this administration next is going to want loyalty, and that's important because the first time they got burned, so, they will make sure they have loyal, competent people.

Speaker 2: 1:18:43

Yeah, that's the other thing I'm excited about. What I've seen about Donald Trump is he learned. He comes in and he does. He's not afraid to not know. He'll figure it out as he goes along. He has great instincts and when you're learning something new, it's messy, and that's what we saw a little bit. But I've also seen a completely different guy showing up and to me, I got to look at leaders who learn. Leaders learn and get better at what they at a particular domain, and I think he's completely light years ahead of where he was in 2016.

Speaker 2: 1:19:17

As far as somebody and I know this is probably bombastic to say, but I feel like he's kind of like an Abraham Lincoln of our times he could potentially be that kind of president if we give him a chance Now. I know people will laugh at that on the other side, but I truly believe that in my heart. I know in my heart that he could be stepping into some challenging things too that we're going to have to get through as a country, and I'd rather have him, his gravitas and his weight in the White House than others. That's, that's what it comes down to.

Speaker 3: 1:19:49

Historically, you just called it. Our country is at yet another inflection point, and when we are at inflection points we need leadership that's going to deal with that inflection point, whether it's Churchill in England in World War II, Lincoln during the Civil War, you just have to. Inflection points require great leadership and we are at an inflection point.

Speaker 2: 1:20:15

Yeah, vivek says we're at a 1776 moment. I love that. I think that's truly where we're at as a country and I don't think we've seen that full inflection point yet and I want to have somebody in charge that I can feel confident in. That's going to help guide me on what to do and help me step into it. And I think I'll say is I've been more inspired.

Speaker 2: 1:20:34

This podcast has turned in a certain direction because I felt inspired and if you give him a chance, he can inspire you. You have to give him a chance. You have to be willing to look at your own assessment, your belief. We go back to what you said in the beginning All beliefs are irrational, but some are more grounded in fact and action than others. That's what comes down to it and that's where you solidify it. And, as it goes back to my point and I just do hope that people that are on the fence are willing to look at the other side, even though they might have a visceral reaction give yourself a chance to look at him in a different angle, from a different angle, and maybe you'll see something different.

Speaker 2: 1:21:12

Any final words for you, Guy, that you would like to say to close out today.

Speaker 3: 1:21:17

No, you know. Again, I urge people to learn about where we are and how important things are right now for us. And how important things are right now for us. And there are grave times, but let's not take ourselves over seriously either. We're lucky, we're healthy, the sun shines, we have families who love us and we love them back. And grave times, but also, let's just be, let's appeal to our own humaneness.

Speaker 2: 1:21:55

Yeah, come back together. I mean, I look at what happened, regardless of what your thoughts, what our thoughts are on how FEMA responded to Helene. What was so amazing about it was the humanity. The humanity shows up in times of crisis, crisis, and the best of us comes forward. I was crying at some of you know what's happened in some of those communities that have been out of touch with help. They've created their own help and people came and galvanized together and that's what I think we need a leader that's going to bring us back into that. You know. Back to JFK. You don't ask what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country.

Speaker 3: 1:22:32

You have to get a little bit back to that.

Speaker 2: 1:22:34

How can we help each other out?

Speaker 3: 1:22:36

And I think that yeah go ahead.

Speaker 3: 1:22:39

You can cut this off if you want when we do the thing. But I got to tell you one more anecdote, and I promise it'll be the last one, talking about Helene. So President Trump was giving his speech. He's like so my people told me that they had no internet. So I called Elon and I said hey, is there a way for you to get people internet in those areas, starlink? And President Trump goes. While I'm on the phone with Elon, I got a phone call. I got a text from somebody saying Starlink is coming in and President Trump goes Elon, how did you do this? I'm still talking to you on the phone and you and I know that personality right.

Speaker 3: 1:23:21

Elon was on his other phone texting his people while he's talking to the president, saying send Starlink to North Carolina. And President Trump was like these are the people that I'm going to be working with. He had this solved while I was on the phone. He's like how does he do this? But that's where Trump is humane. He's being like how does this guy do this? And that's how efficient we can be. And I thought I'd tell you this anecdote because you will appreciate that phenotype of both sides, like oh, I asked you for help. While I'm asking you for help, you've sent the help.

Speaker 2: 1:23:53

Yeah, can you see, well, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean to me. I mean I had uh on my last show. I had uh a gentleman, uh gary lamb, on and he was talking. He was he's more of a kind of work hard-working guys worked with his hands all his life and I had him on because he's been through some hell with COVID and with censorship. He has a YouTube station and he said when and I'm repeating something on that show, which is, you know, in the African-American community, in our community, when Trump was in office, the cash was flowing through our community because he saw a problem and he fixed it.

Speaker 2: 1:24:34

And a lot of the problem is we have middle people taking money that's supposed to be for the people to pay for the services that are supposed to, and he basically cut all that out and they were able to be more entrepreneurial, start small businesses, and as soon as the new administration came in, all that dried up. So that's a first. And again, he sees a problem, he fixes it, but he doesn't do it in a traditional way and that drives the bureaucrats crazy.

Speaker 3: 1:25:01

So that's, I think that's what I say, exactly, exactly, anyway. So I thought you liked that anecdote. At the end I said everything.

Speaker 2: 1:25:10

I appreciate it. Well, keith, thanks so much for sharing your incredible journey with us today and talking about. We talked about resilience and determination, the American dream and how inspired you were by that, and I was inspired by your story. You know how you navigated personal challenges and how that kind of wraps up into your whole vision and what's possible for this country and for politics. I really appreciate you taking the time.

Speaker 3: 1:25:32

Thank you. Thank you for your time too, and hope we can do that again.

Speaker 2: 1:25:36

Yeah, and to all listeners out there, thank you for tuning in. This completes my election series. The aim of this year is to provide a powerful explanation into leadership, the stakes in this pivotal election and the choices we have to face for our nation. So in today's conversation resonated with you. I encourage you to share this episode with others and with your fellow executives, entrepreneurs or anyone who's tried to traverse this complex political landscape. You can catch this and other episodes of Unfazed Under Fire on YouTube, apple Podcasts and 15 other podcasting platforms, and you'll also find links to that below, and I'll share some contact information with Guy, if that's okay, and he'll let me know what that is. That will also be below in the show. So thank you very much for watching. This is David Craig Utz, leadership Alchemist, signing off. Stay resilient, stay purposeful and, most importantly, lead with your heart, with integrity, and have a great rest of your day. Thank you, All right, thank you.