Speaker 1: 0:11

Welcome to Unfazed Under Fire, a podcast designed to elevate your leadership and amplify your impact. Each episode offers valuable insights to help you transform your vision into reality, cultivate high-performing cultures that attract top talents, and navigate the complexities of today's uncertain, chaotic world with confidence and clarity. Now tuning into your needs, here's your host and moderator, seasoned executive coach and leadership alchemist, david Craig Utz. Craig Utz.

Speaker 2: 0:48

Hello everybody and welcome to this very special episode of the podcast, and, before we dive in, I want to take a moment to wish all of you a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. This time of year is such a gift, a season of joy, reflection and connection, and I hope you're surrounded by warmth, love and the people that matter most to you. I also want to take this opportunity to thank you. Thank you for being part of this journey, for listening and for continuing to explore ways to lead with greater vision, purpose and impact. It's because of you that this show exists, and I'm grateful for you tuning in, for your time and support, and I'm grateful for you tuning in for your time and support. Now, as we close out of 2024,. I wanted this final episode of the year to be particularly meaningful. That's why I've chosen Jessica Cox to mark this holiday season. Jessica's story, her courage, resilience and ability to turn challenges into triumph is such a powerful reminder of the human spirit's capacity to rise above. She's not just inspiring. She's a living testament to what's possible as we face what appears to limit us and transform it into greatness. This is the kind of energy we all need as we head into the new year, and I want to extend again a special thanks to Jessica for accepting my offer to be on the podcast. It was such a gift. And, speaking of the year ahead, I want to share something with you.

Speaker 2: 2:14

In 2025, the show will be shifting slightly. We're living in a time of tremendous transformation and turmoil. As you're well aware, this is a time that's calling leaders to step more fully into their hearts, their power and turmoil. As you're well aware, this is a time that's calling leaders to step more fully into their hearts, their power and their purpose. The invitation today for leaders is to go beyond merely driving results for their organization. While that's important, it's also about using your influence to help move forward the change in the world that's taking us in a positive direction, to lift up humanity as a whole.

Speaker 2: 2:48

So, as you rest and recharge and reflect on the holiday season, I also encourage you to think about the role you play, not just in your organization, but in the broader world. There's such an opportunity for all of us to create meaningful, lasting change, and we're at the forefront of what I think is the best of humanity to come. So I'm wishing all of you a Merry Christmas, happy holidays and a truly joyful, safe and peaceful season. Rest up, enjoy every moment with your loved ones and let's get ready to step into an amazing 2025 together. Now let's dive into an incredible show and conversation I had with Jessica Cox. I can't think of a better way to wrap up the year. Again, happy new year. Enjoy. Welcome back to.

Speaker 2: 3:38

Unfazed Under Fire. I'm David Kagatz, the leadership alchemist and your host for the show. Now, this show is dedicated to empowering executives like you to amplify your leadership impact, gain fresh insights and build the resilience needed to thrive today's unpredictable world Now at its core, this show is about igniting authentic, courageous leadership in the world. So the question is, what truly ignites that such leadership? It's ignited when we tap into and authentically release the human spirit that lies within each of us. Leadership comes alive when we deeply connect to what we care about most, understand our core values and live from them, and engage our authentic voice and actions to purposely move forward what matters most to us. Now, that's not always comfortable. It takes tremendous courage, but each time we lead from this place, we open up a well of personal power that expands and deepens our impact with each step we take.

Speaker 2: 4:32

Authentic, courageous leadership is not for the faint of heart. Engaging. It requires that we step into discomfort, risk vulnerability and take bold actions in service to a vision that aligns with who we truly are, and take bold actions and service to a vision that aligns with who we truly are. Yet when we lead in this way, we become fully alive, and that aliveness has a profound effect on those around us. It's a ripple effect that can transform teams, organizations and, most importantly, the people we love and are closest to. And today more than ever, the world is craving this authenticity. As leaders, we have an opportunity and responsibility to model this for those around us, and when we tap into the truth of who we truly are, we not only lead with greater impact, we also inspire others to do the same. So this brings me to our incredible guest today, jessica Cox. And as you are about to witness firsthand, jessica is a true trailblazer and a living testament to the power of the human spirit. So get ready to be inspired, jessica. Welcome to the show. It's great to have you today.

Speaker 3: 5:36

Thank you, david, for having me on, and I may have to say it's going to be first foot instead of firsthand.

Speaker 2: 5:42

Okay, there you go. I like that Good correction, Good correction, and let me make sure everybody understands if they haven't already figured that out. Jessica, I'm going to do a little introduction just to get people tuned into you. Jessica was born without arms, yet defies limitations, using her feet the way most people use their hands. Overcoming initial frustration and anger, she transformed this disability into a strength, now empowering individuals and organizations to unlock their limitless potential. She's done that by being a seasoned motivational speaker for eight years and has inspired audiences worldwide. Her compelling story has been featured on prominent TV programs such as Ellen, CNN, National Geographic, Fox, Friends and BBC News, and she's spoken in eight countries and addressed audiences up to 40,000 people, delivering unique workshops and keynote speeches for renowned companies such as JP Morgan, AT&T, NASA, Smithsonian State Farm and Cisco. And using her feet in the ways most people use their hands. Jessica has become the world's first licensed armless pilot, and today we'll be also hearing about one of her current exciting projects, where she's working with a team to build the first exclusively foot-controlled plane, which is pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 7:01

She's a crusader for all matters of disability, equity and inclusion. Her counsel has been sought after by government and associations and healthcare professionals and organizations. She's privileged to serve as a mentor to many children who were born without arms and their families, and this has inspired her to create the Right Footed Foundation, a nonprofit whose mission is to help all children born without arms to live independent lives. She's also the author of Disarm your Limits, an autobiography and self-help book that sold over 10,000 copies, has contributed to Flying Magazine and has been a guest blogger for Humanity and Inclusion, and she also is the star of a documentary, Right Footed. That tells her story, and I can tell you I watched it over the weekend with my fiance and we were really inspired. I encourage everybody to watch the movie. It's very available on Amazon and many other stations.

Speaker 2: 7:55

In her free time, Jessica practices taekwondo, where she holds a fourth-degree black belt. I've got to be careful around her right Skuba dies and is learning to play golf. Her commitment to overcoming challenges, inspiring others to serve, is a testament to the power of resilience and determination. So to leaders out there that are looking to build resilience and understand how to get out of their own way, you're an awesome person to have on this show and I really appreciate it. You're an awesome person to have on this show and I really appreciate it. What I'd like you to do I mean, I just shared a lot about your bio, which is the details and the content, which is pretty impressive, but I'd love you to, as I do with all my guests, first-time guests is to just have you share your story in your own words, the way you like to tell the story. How did you get to where you are today, what was that journey? And we're going to get into the details of the challenges and anything like that, but just to give us a flavor in your own words.

Speaker 3: 8:51

Well, where can I begin? I mean, it probably would fill everyone in on the uniqueness of some of the adversity by starting at the beginning, because that is where my parents found out, to their shock and to their surprise, that I was going to live a life without arms and I came out with no indication of a disability. The sonograms came back normal and then the day that my mom had the cesarean section, which was very routine, she had my brother via cesarean section, so she had me as well. That same way, but to the shock of not only the doctor, the nurses, just everyone in the room, uh, that I didn't have what most babies have, and in a small town in Southern Arizona. It was, uh, it was a devastating news for what would be in store for my future.

Speaker 3: 9:49

And my parents were a huge part of creating a foundation of faith, support, resilience that I ended up having for the rest of my life and now am able to do for so many who are born without arms around the world. So it was hard in the very beginning, especially for my parents, especially for myself, coming to terms with my difference and what that meant. Not so much what it meant in my own life personally, because this is all I've ever known. I don't know any different, but more so what it meant to be different in a world where everyone has arms and hands and how. How it is that the world constantly reminded me of my difference and that sense of confidence developing the confidence amidst the threat of rejection was my biggest obstacle in my life, and learning how to do with that to the point now that I truly embrace it because it's a blessing and I see it now as a gift that has taken me around the world doing things that I don't know if I would have accomplished them if I had the arms and hands.

Speaker 2: 11:02

Yeah well, beautiful them. If I had the arms and hands. Yeah Well, beautiful. And how did you? You know, because I mean, I don't know if you're familiar with Joseph Campbell's work of the hero's journey, but you know, your journey personifies that journey of you know, maybe in a certain way you've never had a, you know, a normal start, because you came out of the womb without arms, but there was the struggle and facing some of the dragons that you had to face internal dragons, if you will, as a metaphor. I mean, how did you initially confront and transform those early frustrations of being different and you know, people not understanding, and probably kids, the way they are can sometimes be very mean, not intended to be, but they are and then pointing that out to you when you're a kid. How did that? How did you initially confront and transform those early frustrations into strengths?

Speaker 3: 11:52

I love that you recognize that transformation that had to occur to be able to be who I am now, as I speak with you and share with one of the wonderful listeners here who are probably having their own transformations as well, in their own kind of way. For me, it was very difficult in the beginning to come to terms with the fact that the moment I walked outside of my home, I was going to be subject to being different and what that entailed. That meant stares, that meant questions, that meant isolation. At times, it meant discrimination, it meant all these things, and it wasn't always easy.

Speaker 3: 12:36

It was even harder for me at times to do things, to overcome the naysayers, to overcome doubt and all of the negativity that was really focusing on the lack of my arms instead of the fact that my toes and feet do just as well as hands and arms and, surprisingly, in some aspects, they're actually better at some things, which is strange, but that's how it is for me, um, because some people don't know what it's like to fly a plane with hands and I know what it's like to fly a plane with my toes and feet.

Speaker 3: 13:13

And that transformation of the physical, of doing things physically, is one thing, but the transformation of internally coming up with that confidence, developing and nurturing that sense of self and confidence amidst all the discrimination and negativity, is another. And now, on the other side of transformation, I actually embrace it in a sense that I am able to give off this exude, this sense of joy and this gift of being different in a way that it causes this reaction of people around me and in a sense, they give me the reaction I want of positivity, of oh, she just happens to be different, she just does it in a different way. And I embrace that now, as opposed to pre-transformation, when I would avoid it at all costs.

Speaker 2: 14:11

Yeah, Can you maybe share a moment when you realized what you thought was a limitation was an invitation to expand you into living your dreams, Because you're talking about this kind of like caterpillar to butterfly almost transformation experience. Like you know it wasn't. It isn't fun for a caterpillar to melt into I'm sure that experience Right, and then the transformation occurs. But there's some. There's there. I'm sure there's been moments when there was an invitation, the invitation was extended. Oh, this may not be quite what I thought it was.

Speaker 3: 14:46

Meditation was extended. Oh, this may not be quite what I thought it was, yes and I and I really love that you asked that question because this is going to touch a little bit on my faith, because it was a foundation of my strength in so many ways and there was a time where I had it started to create a shift in me. No-transcript, the store looking for my aunt. All I want to do is pick her up, drop her off at home and get on with my life, but it was one of those days I show up and everyone's at the store, everyone and their family. It was right before a holiday, so they were both. It was bulk shopping and everyone had their carts full and it was impossible to find a needle in a haystack. You know my aunt in the midst of a store filled with 200, 300 shoppers. And I went through the store looking for her, with no luck. She didn't have a cell phone. And then I thought, well, maybe she's at the cash register and I made my way there. And then, uh, walked up and down the cash register lines and there were like 50 to a hundred person long lines and as I was walking by these lines, everyone was staring at me and, today in particular, felt like the stairs felt strong and they felt like they were really, um, very, uh, obvious because of the fact they had nothing better to do than to stand in line and stare at the woman without arms. And as I'm walking by, everyone's heads are turning, and it's one after the other, after the other, it's this domino effect and finally I hit a breaking point. I'm like I've had enough and I look for a rack of clothing and I went behind this rack of clothing. I cowered below this uh, cower behind this rack of clothing. And I went behind this rack of clothing. I cowered below this, cowered behind this rack of clothing, and thinking to myself God, why can't you just make me normal? I'm tired of being stared at, I'm tired of being this center of attention at this store and I just want to find my aunt and get home. And, of course, in that moment I'm just cowering and having a moment, a low moment. Somehow I pull myself back up and I'm able to pull myself out of that situation. I eventually find my aunt and drive her home.

Speaker 3: 17:17

True story a week later, I'm at the same exact store, but this time I'm gassing up my car. I gas up my car by myself, I hold on the gas pump with my right foot and I bring the pump over to the side of the car and I'm able to gas up my car. And I'm standing there gassing up my car by myself and a man is approaching from behind me and I'm wondering who this guy is because I turn around, I don't recognize him and I don't recognize him. But he has tears streaming down his cheeks and I realize he's been crying and I'm, and I asked him what's wrong, are you a cop? And he said, said to me, do you see that woman? You see that, uh, the kid over there in my car, over at the other gas pump.

Speaker 3: 17:56

And I look over and I see about a teenage, teenage girl sitting in the passenger seat of the car and he says that's my daughter.

Speaker 3: 18:04

She just lost a couple of her fingers in an accident and she saw you gassing up your car by yourself, without arms, using your feet, and it gave her the sense of hope and inspiration she needed to keep going.

Speaker 3: 18:18

And it was like that shift of the internal battles that I face and recognizing that you know, we all have our own battles, we all have our own challenges, but what we can do is help others and I think for me making that shift in my life of recognizing that this is all part of something bigger and that God answered my prayer and my question in that sense, it took a week to get that answer, but it was very clear that this is a part of something greater and we're all here to help and serve each other. And while I was really withdrawn and thinking that I had big challenges and obstacles, I now start to recognize that everyone has something, everyone has some kind of obstacle and if I can be an inspiration to them, wow, what a gift that is by just simply standing at the gas pump and gasping at my car.

Speaker 2: 19:13

Well, it's a beautiful moment of cowering behind the clothes like that and crying out and saying, god, why did you do this? And you know, it's almost like I can feel like we've all had moments of that genuine calling out to whatever we call out to, when there is this release in us, like I can't do this by myself. It's almost like that's what I say to myself. It's almost like what am I trying to do to try to figure this all out by myself? When I have something inside or outside of however you relate to spirituality, that that's got a, it's bigger than me, and and then that that gets answered in a, in a very normal everyday way, by having to be at that gas pump at that time to get that serendipity, almost synchronicity, that happens, uh, and and that, and then you, you got it. Something clicked in you Is that fair to say? In that moment, something really clicked in you.

Speaker 3: 20:09

Yes, it was definitely a God moment that we all have occasionally. Sometimes we're not aware of it, but I was definitely aware of it in that moment, that sense of understanding that this is nothing to hide, this is nothing to be self-conscious about, this is a gift and it can be given to others and help others. And why not embrace it? And that was probably, for me, the stepping stones, one of the stepping stones, one of the many stepping stones, to be able to get to the point where I am today.

Speaker 2: 20:45

Yeah, beautiful, and you talk about the triumph of the human spirit, and I also do talk about this idea of the human spirit. It's a core to me. There is what I would call trained leadership, or I know what to do to be a leader. I know I need to have a conversation and set an agenda for a meeting, or there's things out there that tell you how to be a leader in different situations and what to do, but leadership to me doesn't really ignite through it. It ignites through a place of beingness, a place of what I'm being as a person. A place of beingness, a place of what I'm being as a person, and the research even points that out that there's an awakening that happens, that one gets, that occurs.

Speaker 2: 21:31

Can you talk about the triumph of the human spirit? As much as we are different, is this a place where we share something as human beings, would you say? And if so, talk a little bit about the triumph of the human spirit and what you mean by that. I know the triumph is the victory, but what are we connecting to in ourselves?

Speaker 3: 21:57

that is maybe the same or similar, if that's fair to ask, yes, the triumph of the human spirit and how we have the capacity and the ability to rise above to be the best version of ourselves. I really loved how we had this talk, even before this interview, about leadership and the recognition of the leader within. Sometimes we don't realize that and I think of myself as not necessarily seeing the leadership and now knowing that I am, and one of those things that have really helped me to rise above and recognize the accountability in my life is the experience of becoming a pilot, and I just want to touch on that because the moment I was okay.

Speaker 3: 22:45

It was the moment I was given full control of this airplane. And if you can imagine, it's hard for non-pilots or people who maybe have never been behind the controls of an airplane, to understand this true accountability.

Speaker 3: 23:04

Only compare it to the moment that you get your driver's license and you're driving in the car without another person with you and it's like, wow, I am behind the wheel and, in the same sense, if you imagine that, 10 times greater as a pilot wow, I'm behind the yoke of the airplane and my life is in my feet, is what I thought to myself, because I'm controlling this airplane with my toes and my feet and no one else is in the airplane with me and it's like anything I do.

Speaker 3: 23:32

It's you know, this is this, is you know I'm going to survive this flight or am I going to just fly this plane into the ground? And it's really a sense of empowerment that comes over you of being pilot in your life and knowing that you can steer yourself in the right direction, Because a lot of times, we just allow things to happen to us as opposed to recognizing that our reaction is more important. Like the saying goes, you know, life is 10%, what happens to you, 90% of how you respond to it. And I love that old quote that many people have heard, or some version of that quote, and that's what aviation has done for me is brought that awareness of accountability and leadership.

Speaker 2: 24:19

Right, well, and you. That was a big part of the story in the documentary is foreshadow a little bit of that by sharing what sparked your interest in flying and what led to your successfully having your solar flight. When you were, you had the you know, uh, you had it in your feet versus your hands, your feet and you and you were. You're up there. You know nobody in the cockpit with you.

Speaker 3: 24:55

So just take a little bit of that story, because that just is a very powerful part of your real life course what drew me to to flying was my fear of flying, and I think a lot of times we have fears as part of the human experience and we can either run away from them or we can run towards them, or we can just freeze out of fear. And for me, this was an opportunity to run towards it, to understand and to be an example, and, again, a leader that never let fear stand in the way of an opportunity, like I always say. And so why not overcome my greatest fear of losing contact with the ground and find out, because I learned a lot of our fears are related to the fear of the unknown, not knowing For me, related to the fear of the unknown, not knowing for me. How does an airplane fly If it loses an engine? It doesn't just fall out of the sky, you just glide on down and land like you would normally land.

Speaker 2: 25:55

All these things will cause a tsunami. You say that so nonchalantly. Yeah, lose an engine. You just glide on down. I love it, Sorry.

Speaker 3: 26:04

In fact, you're supposed to be prepared for that because by your first 500 hours, your most pilots will experience an engine failure at some point, and so you're trained to handle that if that were to happen. So the preparedness and, uh, becoming a pilot teaches you um and using checklists and all that is is really empowering as well. But for me it was. I wanted to become a pilot because it was my fear. I wanted to conquer the fear, and learning everything about aviation to become a certified pilot did help me to overcome it. I mean, there's still a little bit of fear there, and that's okay. It actually keeps me on my toes. But and now? Yeah, sorry, David.

Speaker 2: 26:48

I said it was a healthy fear.

Speaker 3: 26:49

It's a healthy fear, yes, and now flying as a solo pilot in command by myself. Occasionally, it's really that reminder that you know, don't let fear stand the way of an opportunity. And when I land after flying solo by myself, I have a huge smile on my face and it remains with me throughout the whole day.

Speaker 2: 27:12

Yeah, well, you're in that story and you have a couple people that showed up in your life in that story, as well as the woman that you met that didn't have arms, that inspired you. Talk about the people that came, because that's another thing that happens when we're on this journey. We get these helpers along the way, right, people that that take us under their wing and say you can do this, I'm gonna. I don't care what other people say, I'm gonna, we're gonna make this happen. So you can talk a little bit about those people and including, you know, the gentleman that helped you with your flying how, how you, how these people just kind of show up at the right time, and I also want to get back to this thing about stepping into fear, which I love. So there's a lot to unpack here, but just start there, with the people in your life that have shown up at the right time to inspire you in a deeper way.

Speaker 3: 28:01

Oh, how fortunate I feel and blessed I feel that people come into my life right at the right time, and I think if we put out that positivity, it will be a magnet toward the people that we need to accomplish it. You know, it's not just about ourselves. This is about something greater and about all of us working together for the greater good. And so people have come into my life. One in particular and I think you're making reference to David is the person who inspired me that I wasn't alone, and she was a woman who lost her arms in an accident at a young age, but she lived her life through her feet in the same way, and at that point I thought I was the only one who lived life like that. And the moment I met her, it changed my life, to think, wow, if she can do all of that.

Speaker 3: 28:51

She was a mom of two young boys, she was married, she had a wonderful home, and to be able to witness that it changed me to believe that if she can do that, then I can do anything, and I'm not the only one. And I think that that sense of community and connection was huge. It was really like a friendship. That is unlike any friendship. It's a mentorship, and she has been there and we still stay connected. We're going to go dancing next week, actually, so we go line dancing and so we're good friends.

Speaker 2: 29:29

That's awesome. Well, you know it's. There's something that happens when we start taking risks in life. Right, when we step you talked about stepping into fear, and when you step into that, life meets you. You know, I had a mentor that told me you know, you're not just living life, you're life itself, you're integrated with it. You are because you know, life knows. You know, and somehow, when we get connected to our passion and what we care about and we start stepping into fear, as you beautifully illustrated in your story life supports us.

Speaker 2: 30:13

You know, and and people show up and opportunities show up, and sometimes it like that's the next step, oh, and I have to take another big gulp and take that step right, um, and and.

Speaker 2: 30:23

Then we got to start getting accustomed to being uncomfortable, which I think is a good thing. So I don't know if that puts it together. I mean, or how are you would articulate that, as far as a you know and I'm thinking about leaders you know that are dealing with far less what they would see it says as far less challenges than you face. It might be speaking up in a meeting when I'm surrounded by people that are two levels above me in the organization, but I see something that we could be doing better, or it could be going for some opportunity that I don't know if I'm ready for yet, opportunity that I don't know if I'm ready for yet. So if you could, just, yeah, I wonder if you have like a kind of share, share your, you know, put it, put it together in a way that you say it for people that are, that are in that situation.

Speaker 3: 31:15

I love that you said you know making yourself uncomfortable occasionally, because it leads to growth, and I think we sometimes get complacent and want to be comfortable, but putting ourselves in a position.

Speaker 3: 31:30

This is the whole growth mindset of when we put ourselves in uncomfortable positions or we make ourselves vulnerable, we're actually stretching ourselves to grow and we should be constantly growing, no matter how old we are. It's part of the process and we need to put ourselves in positions to continually overcome our fears, to put ourselves and stretch our comfort zones, and that's when we're able to become the best version of ourselves, because it's constant, constant growth. And that's what also helped me, I think, personally, with confidence is that I would go in the conquer something new and then I'd have this sense of confidence and then say, okay, well, what's next? And go on to the next challenge, and then that was helped overall, gave me this foundation of confidence over time, and that's in the younger years of my life, when my mom and dad would put me in these wonderful opportunities to adapt and then, as a result, have this surge of confidence that comes with it. So there's so many benefits that come from putting ourselves in scary and uncomfortable positions.

Speaker 2: 33:00

Um, it's, it's, uh, when you and I think you were pointing one of the things, the situations, you were in the dance recital when you were younger, I think I saw the documentary and I can't imagine how that scary that must've, must've been for that little girl to step out on stage. And then, when you heard the applause, you said something happened in me that instilled greater confidence. Is that fair to say that that's what happened, or you know?

Speaker 3: 33:17

Yeah, yes, that's my story that I that I share as a. As a little girl, I didn't like having any extra attention and so when it came to my first dance recital, I just told my mom I don't want to be in my dance recital. Please go tell my dance teacher I don't need to be a part of it. But the next day, at dance class, she went to talk to my teacher and somehow they convinced me to buy my dance costume anyway, and I did, and I found myself weeks later there behind the curtains while all the other kids were getting ready to go out on the dance floor and recognizing.

Speaker 3: 33:50

Everyone else was scared and I was scared, but I was going to go out there and through some prodding, I went out there and there's just, it was the point of no return. The moment I got out on stage I was like there's no turning back, I am out here. The lights came on and I looked down and did my routine and started, you know, to elevate my eyes. As I started to hear the round of applause, my eyes started to lift higher and higher and higher and my eye level got to a point where I could finally stare straight out at the audience, even though it was bright lights in my face. I could then look out and it was the end of the dance routine. I ran off stage and I said Mom, when can I go back on stage and perform?

Speaker 3: 34:34

And that was the start to definitely being on stage for the rest of my life.

Speaker 2: 34:41

Wow, I mean there's your first mentors and your support as your parents. What a beautiful thing that is that they encouraged you and got you into doing that. And then you look at all the accomplishments, which are amazing, and you look back. I mean, they didn't all happen at once, right, but you look at all you've done with the book and the documentary and the flying and the fourth degree now black belt and golf and scuba diving and all these things.

Speaker 2: 35:11

It seems like there, as you go on that journey, that a momentum begins to build to live life in a different way, of momentum begins to build to live life in a different way.

Speaker 2: 35:22

And I think you know we have this internal human spirit that craves to be expressed. And then we have the animal body, that we're in that kind of craves, that comfort, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's good to have a beautiful meal with our family and sit back after the meal and enjoy our digestion and you know, and have a day where we don't have to do anything. All those things are being everyone's, just being in nature and doing nothing. But then there is this call to be, to see what we can do with this thing we've been given called life and you know you talked a little bit about how this relates to your impression of what the journey of leadership is. So if you could talk a little bit about you know what I call authentic, courageous leadership, if you could talk a little bit about how you see your journey which it does, but from your own words how it relates to a leader developing and becoming a better leader and having greater impact for others around them and having greater impact for others around them.

Speaker 3: 36:21

I love that you speak a lot to leaders and the importance of leadership, and so for me, that's also who I speak to when I speak to corporations and some of those points. As I talked a little bit about accountability and having vision, vision is critical, one of those. Again, another story relating to my flying is that for a while there, because no one had ever flown a plane without arms before and no one had built a plane custom for someone without arms, so it's never been done in aviation history and it was hard to start with a vision of something that had never been done before. But it was something that was a burning desire that was always in me and I wanted to pursue that by uh. But of course there were a lot of setbacks and a lot of challenges and a lot of doubt and naysayers, and so I there was one point in time when I hit rock bottom in my training and I thought, wow, this is going to be hard to overcome, but I still know I want to do this and I have the drive. So I put up a picture of the airplane that I now fly and I put it up on the backdrop of my computer and spent just a couple seconds every day envisioning what it was like to fly that plane. And it was just the baby steps to get to that total vision of flight. But it took perseverance. And that's another point for leaders is the importance of not giving up and being consistent, because a lot of times I think we really can get bogged down by those walls that we hit. There's a famous quote by he wrote this. It's called the Last Lecture and he's a professor and he passed away, but I'm sure many people have heard the Last Lecture and in that quote, you know, walls are only there to stop the people who don't want it. Badly enough was such a powerful quote and sometimes we hit our walls in our obstacles and our challenges and it really sets us back.

Speaker 3: 38:29

One particular time I remember, really intense in my training, and one day I came in to train and I was in the airplane. This was past my solo flight, so I was at that point given permission by my instructor to take up the plane by myself and fly it. And I was flying this particular day and I came down and I didn't pull back on the yoke enough, which meant I was coming too fast into the ground on final, on landing, and I remember bouncing the plane so hard it literally bounced like a ball. And when it bounced I began, I just it just like hit me. I'm like wow, I really hit the ground hard.

Speaker 3: 39:10

I didn't know what condition the airplane was in at that point. Luckily the airplane was fine. But I bounced the plane, I pulled back the entire, all the ending, the power. I pulled it back and I went over and I taxied over to the hangar. And in my head that entire ride over to the hangar I was thinking that my instructor is probably done with me. He's probably saying you know, this is over, we've done everything we can. You bounced the plane. You're lucky you didn't destroy it. And I'm over there at this hangar and roll down the window or push down the window. You don't really roll it down, you just push down the window and my instructor walks up to the airplane and he sees me and he sees how rattled I am and I'm about ready thinking, oh, it's over.

Speaker 3: 39:54

It's done. And he turns and he says, oh, so you're done for the day. And I said, yeah, I'm done. He said, well, when are you going to come back out and train again? So he'd never given up, despite the fact that I nearly, you know, destroyed this plane and I bounced the plane. A leader we can't give up in those who we lead, and that perseverance example was something that really taught me a lot about life and leadership and really having that faith that someone will pull through. It's normal to have those experiences.

Speaker 2: 40:33

And when he was kind of so nonchalant about that I know you just described the impact of that. What was that like in that moment when you realized he wasn't going to make a big deal about what just happened?

Speaker 3: 40:46

I was just so relieved and so shocked, I think, because I thought I was just like oh, you know, here I did it, I did the worst possible thing and it's over. But then it's just like his reaction and it was just so encouraging. And, of course, the next morning I was there training again for the big goal, which was a certification flight, and so that was so reassuring to know that he had that kind of real faith and perseverance in my skill set.

Speaker 2: 41:18

Well, that just goes to show you. Many leaders have direct reports that fail and a lot of times you know you have to be astute on what is the right response, not reaction, because you may want to react, you might have an initial reaction I can't let them have that happen again or whatever but in this case he was a great coach because what he realized you're already beating yourself up, you could tell. So he kind of he just said when you can get back on the horse again, right and yeah, and that relieved all that stressor and that's that was such a beautiful move as a coach in that moment that he had that. That is uh, that had a big effect on you. That's really wow you. You mentioned a lot of things there, just like you know. You touched on vision, you know, and you gave an example of the picture of the plane and imagining flying it. What, how do you define what vision is? You know, maybe that that definition, that story. Unwrap that a little bit and say what is vision and how does it?

Speaker 3: 42:23

support us. I think vision is, yes, it's so important because, you know, I mean, I don't want to dive right into this power of the law of attraction type of thing about having a vision board but it's so much about how real are you making that vision? And for me it was about feeling what it was like to be sitting in that plane, even though it hadn't occurred yet. But to feel it to, to smell it you know the smell of you smell a little of abgas and and to smell it and to, to see it, to, to feel, and how real I could make it, because the more real I made it, the easier it became.

Speaker 2: 43:10

So I think that that's just the importance of that is finding something that you are making real and with that vision, yeah, and what you're saying is that it feels real within you. You get excited as if it's happening, and I think sometimes we look at that and we almost don't appreciate that. What does it mean to make it feel real? And to me, if it's something you really want, that's not hard. A lot of times sometimes we're being told to go after things that we think we should want and they don't hold the same energy for us and we don't tend to fulfill on those things.

Speaker 2: 43:42

But it's something that when you really desire it and it's so important to get in touch when I work with leaders to say, like, okay, why are you coming to work every day? Oh, I've got an executive position leading finance, or I'm an IT director or whatever it is. I said, is that really why you're coming to work every day? And we tend to have conversations to where it. Is that what it is that you want. From the experience of interacting with people, of forwarding your team of you know, what do you want them talking about when they come in the next day? Or do you want them to talk about kicking the dog or loving up their family. You know you have impact on that, on that.

Speaker 2: 44:19

What is it that you really care about? And that's, in a sense, vision right. It's understanding what it is that I want this leader person that everybody looks to as a leader to be, and what kind of impact I want that to have. And it's sometimes very difficult for me to get people to slow down and think about that, because they're so concerned about making sure they do a good job, which is great, but they don't see the connection between the feeling of that and the sense of the quality of being that they have to be to be that right.

Speaker 3: 44:56

I love it. It's so true and I love this experience you've had and it was just wonderful chatting with you about that even before this interview and how we create leaders around us that I'm able to provide for many of the people without arms and it sounds like it's rare, but it's one in 100,000 people are born without both arms. That's the chance so it's not as rare as some situations but to be able to be a leader for them and take a stand for who I hope that they can become. It's such a beautiful position to be in.

Speaker 3: 45:41

I just spent a weekend this past weekend doing a triathlon and I was with many people who were born without arms. I would say five people born without arms, others who lost arms due to either trauma from accidents or who lost limbs due to sepsis, which is a disease that happens and you have to have the limbs amputated. So, being around this community and knowing that many of them are in different stages of acceptance and their journey of leadership and being leaders for others leadership and being leaders for others but to be able to be a part of this amazing team and do something which was a triathlon together as one big team was special and it gives you a great purpose to know, because I've had my whole life without arms, but some of them have just spent the last year or two without their limbs.

Speaker 2: 46:41

And it's a different position to be in. Yeah, they're going through the stages of grief still, and dealing with the processing of that yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:48

Yes, and you know the other thing, which is kind of related to leadership, what you're just talking about, which is, you know, moving through obstacles. So you know, vision inherent in vision is obstacles. Otherwise, if you could have a vision and do it, everybody would do it right. I mean, vision has the obstacles baked in. What have you learned about an example of, maybe, helping people getting ready on your team for the triathlon, or getting ready to learn how to fly, or, you know, scuba dive or any of those things? What have you learned about moving through obstacles? Is there anything nuanced about that you wanted to share that you haven't already shared, about how you now meet them and how you see an obstacle, because that is also a perception of what it is that can help a lot too.

Speaker 3: 47:37

Mm-hmm, I love that you talk about perception, because I'm going to talk a little bit about communication, something that hasn't been easy for me and it was a journey of.

Speaker 3: 47:51

As a leader, we have to be able to communicate, because it's one thing to listen to what someone is saying versus hearing what they're saying, saying versus hearing what they're saying, and to understand that nuanced difference as a leader in communication.

Speaker 3: 48:08

Again, going back to becoming a pilot, communication is critical in the cockpit Because, for example, when you fly the plane and say you have another competent pilot in the airplane with you, because the airplane has dual controls, you can essentially fly it from the right seat or the left seat.

Speaker 3: 48:25

So one can fly from the right seat and if a pilot is in the right seat and you're in the left seat and you want them to go ahead and fly, this is an important part of communicating. So when you're with that pilot and you say okay, you have the airplane, the pilot also has to announce I have the airplane. That way there's this communication on both parts and then, if I take the controls again, I say I have the airplane and then they have to announce you have the airplane. So it's very clear communication and that's what's special about what aviation taught me is making sure that there is no ambiguity. It's very clear and, as a leader, communication is so important and this particular experience this past weekend is I recognize the importance of leadership and communication, because we were all communicating via text message, but not everyone was getting the same message, so it's important to take the extra effort to clarify and make sure people are hearing what is being communicated, not just listening to it.

Speaker 2: 49:32

Yeah, and I mean, when there's confusion, it's important to stop and stop and see where the confusion is so everybody gets realigned. As I say all the time, people don't hear what you say, they hear what they interpret. So you have to understand how they've interpreted your communication.

Speaker 2: 49:47

I mean now the airplane. That's pretty clear. But having the communication back you have you know I've given that up and you have it is very important right in those situations. But it's also really really understanding when people seem confused to slow down and take time to get back in sync. You've written this book and I'm sure we're touching on the principles in your book. Disarm your Limits, which I love the title of the book, what would you say are the primary principles? And I apologize, I didn't get a chance to review that book, so I'm asking if you'd help me a little bit here, if you would with the audience and talk a little bit about what are your overarching principles that you teach in that book that maybe relate to leadership and how it can work, how it can support teams, that kind of thing, or your own personal achievements and oracle and support teams, that kind of thing, or your own personal achievements.

Speaker 3: 50:44

I definitely have a lot of content in that book and it was now it's almost 10 years old now, that book, surprisingly, I've had it since 2015. And it's been wonderful having it to share with people so they can take something away from the keynote speech that I give and have something to digest and, personally, something that resonates with them and their obstacles and how they can apply it to. That's why it's called the flight form we like to lift you to success and and so it's it's. It's very much not just my story, but how it is that people can apply it to their own obstacles, and I talk about various. In the various chapters we talked a little bit about desire. We talked about drive earlier, perseverance, about courage, and so I think I'll talk a little bit about that drive factor and the desire, because you know, like they say, desires 80 percent of success and if you don't have the desire to do it, it's it's hard to really achieve something, and that was one of the points that I talked about in the book.

Speaker 3: 51:55

Is is how I was driven to overcome a number of things and, um, one story was how I moved a TV without arms and this funny story about how I stole the TV from my dad and I snuck into the house one day and I moved it, but I had to figure out how I was going to move it and I had to be driven enough to do it, because it took a lot of logistics to finding a tool to help me move it and then move it through the house, because this was like a 22 inch television and how I moved it throughout the house and had all these other challenges that came up and I was under I was kind of under pressure to get it done in a certain amount of time, but having that drive to do it was what helped and kept pushing me to do so, and that's something that helps us to get through. Our obstacles is to find the drive that pushes us and the desire to do something.

Speaker 2: 52:53

And what would you say about how to find that drive? What is the way in which, if you feel like, how do I find, how do I locate that drive? Now, most executives are pretty driven. How do I find, how do I locate that drive? Now, most executives are pretty driven, but I would say that there might be things they need to do that would actually make them more effective, and they don't necessarily feel the drive to urge. How do you find the drive for something that's probably good for you to do? That would help you be more effective in your profession, but you don't have it now.

Speaker 2: 53:24

Is it possible to manufacture or ignite that within yourself.

Speaker 3: 53:28

And it definitely has to be.

Speaker 3: 53:30

It has to come from a point of authenticity because you know, if you're not authentically connected or aligned with what you're trying to accomplish, then there's going to be a point where, no matter what you do, you're not going to get to the next level.

Speaker 3: 53:44

But authenticity is a huge part and I talked a little bit about how I had to find my authentic self in my book, and that was just because everyone else around me as a young person, there were other people around me who were telling me you have to live life with the way that people live, with arms and hands, and so for 11 years I wore prosthetic limbs and throughout those 11 years I realized this wasn't authentic to my life, this wasn't authentic to me, and I had to finally create the voice to say this isn't aligned with who I am and understanding that that authenticity is huge and it helps me propel forward when I was able to say you know, I've given this 11 years almost, you know, over a decade of using and trying what prosthetic arms can provide for me.

Speaker 3: 54:37

But ultimately it's not something that I need, because I was born this way and it's all I've ever known and my natural tendency to use my toes and feet as hands and arms is more normal for me than it is to learn how to use prosthetic limbs and hold something in the hook and arm in the hand and use them to function in the way that everyone uses their arms and hands. So it was. It was a real reality check that, no matter what, even if this is the, these are the most incredible prosthetic limbs out there, like that hollywood can provide, it's not.

Speaker 3: 55:11

It's not lined up with who I am yeah, it's not me, it's not who god created me to be that's.

Speaker 2: 55:18

It's really beautiful because, I mean, this is another thing that I speak about a lot is authenticity, and a lot of times I think we're told to be authentic and sometimes people think that's one thing. They try to think through their authenticity. But you're pointing to something, that there's a sense of it in ourselves that this is not right. But this is for me, and what you're saying with the prosthetics is almost like you're pushing against what everybody else wants or thinks you should do. Maybe, maybe that's part of it, but it's also what you feel like now. This is who I am. I'm going to figure out how to live this way, because it just feels there's something about it that feels right. Is that? Is that right? Is it because there's a sense of it in you that is undeniable, regardless of what anybody else says?

Speaker 3: 56:07

Yes, and it's hard to develop that, but it takes time to really be the advocate for what you need and for that authentic voice, and so it was something that took years to develop, but it was very clear to me that that's not the way I want to live my life.

Speaker 2: 56:28

And then there's a scariness to being authentic too. Would you say that if I really do it that way, what will happen? Or what will people think? Do you relate to that at all? At moments you're going back and forth between what, one way versus your way, and sometimes it's challenging to make that move. And it's a part of you learning about yourself. And is that a process? Would you say it's part of the process of becoming authentic? Yes it is.

Speaker 3: 56:57

And there's always a risk with vulnerability that everyone has to overcome. One of those things I talk about was when I finally gave up the prosthetic arms. I was going to walk to the bus stop and, at the bus stop, get on the bus and go to school, and I went to a public school and this was a normal. You know, this wasn't a school with special needs, it was just a school with all, all the kids, and it would also mean that I was going to be. There was a threat of rejection. Excuse me, sorry about that, no worries. No worries without your permission. And it was this reminder that I, ultimately, am going to be receptive. And the way I received this reaction from the outside world and this is a quote by Eleanor Roosevelt no one can make you feel a fear without your permission it reminded me of the power within, and sometimes we just have to constantly remind ourselves of that to affirm ourselves.

Speaker 2: 58:02

Absolutely, absolutely. That goes back to your faith too, right, it goes back to that place of faith For sure. There was a point and the other thing I want to talk about is this continued growth that when we take this journey of authenticity, there's these continued movements of growth in us, new things that we face that are surprising, that have us double down on that authenticity. And I was watching the documentary and I think it was. Is it Ethiopia you went over to? Is that right? You went on that trip to Ethiopia where over there, disabled children are kind of set aside from society. Sometimes they can't go to school or whatever. They're dealing with a whole different reaction or response to them in that society.

Speaker 2: 58:53

And I noticed how moved you were through that part of the documentary. You could see something happening to you inside you as you were in that part of the documentary. You could see something happening to you inside you as you were in that experience and I thought I wondered if you could just touch on that as one of those times of a deepening for you, if that was a time for deepening that. I picked that up right. And so what was happening in that experience for you that might have deepened your connection to your mission.

Speaker 3: 59:23

You know, I think we are so fortunate in the United States to have the protections and the opportunities and all the things that we're able to do to live out our life and be the best version of ourselves. Then you start to see when you leave the United States how that isn't always the case in places around the world, and for me, as someone who's spoken in 29 countries, one of those trips was to Ethiopia, on a mission to really express the importance of inclusivity in education, because I received word through research and a lot of the community that's working out in Ethiopia, that children with disabilities are rejected not just in their own communities, but they're rejected in schools and other opportunities. So a lot of them are kept hidden in home and not allowed to leave their home. And I wanted to go there to experience that and to do what I could, and I didn't realize how much of an impact it was going to have on me, how, like you mentioned, deepening and how that feeling of powerlessness coming over me, knowing that the reminder that I was born outside the United States this very well could have been my future as well is that people are born in other countries and they're considered, you know, with these unfortunate stigmas a curse or considered you know, and have a hard life from the very beginning because of the labels that exist.

Speaker 3: 1:00:59

It was very hard to go to Ethiopia and witness what this meant for these children who happened to be born with a disability. They were hidden at home. One of them, in particular, was at home for, I think, over a decade, because the family was afraid of how the community would react to this child's disability, and all these other kids were rejected from school, and school was the key. Knowledge is the key for them to be able to be independent one day, and to see all of that was an unfortunate reality check for me and also a reminder of how important it is to continue to do this work, to be a stand that disability doesn't mean inability, that children with disabilities can achieve great things if they're given the same support and the opportunity.

Speaker 2: 1:01:49

Yeah, that's really beautiful and it kind of got you to double down a little bit too, and not that you needed to. But there's always these deeper places. We go, where we go beyond what we thought, even in our own commitment and motivation, and to be in that situation I can imagine how that was so moving. You can see it on your face, actually in the documentary. I wonder what you know, speaking as we're speaking to business executives and leaders now, what can business leaders do to foster? You know we're in the United States, right, so there is the Disability Act. There is more. You know we're in the United States, right, so there is the Disability Act. There is more. You know support and recognition of the abilities of the disabled, that there's so much. You know you have as much to offer as anybody else. What can business leaders do to foster environments that embrace more of that diversity and inclusion in meaningful ways that not only help those that would benefit to come into the organization, but would also help the organization as well?

Speaker 3: 1:02:54

Yes, this is a wonderful question because we still have work to be done in the United States and employers, corporations, still can do a lot to foster inclusivity, to make sure that people with disabilities are given the support they need and feel comfortable to share and, you know, you don't have to disclose no one is required to disclose what they have a disability, and, quite frankly, most disabilities are invisible but for people to feel safe and comfortable so that they can be recognized for their abilities, one of the things I like to share when I speak to corporations is the importance of acceptance, and that's a huge model which I break down into acknowledgement model which I break down into acknowledgement, communication, consideration, empathy and not pity um, people first. And the last letter T is trust, um, and that is so important for any corporation because, uh, so oftentimes people with disabilities are seen as invisible and so oftentimes people with disabilities are seen as invisible, and so acknowledgement is crucial. Communication, you know. Should I ask them if they need help or do I make the assumption and so many assumptions are made about people with disabilities that it's just unfortunate? So having an open communication is critical.

Speaker 3: 1:04:18

Consideration, of course, consideration, of course, and having empathy instead of pity is something that has to always be constantly reminded to people, because I think a lot of times people think of themselves and think, oh, I could never live life like that. People come up to me all the time thinking that, but in reality it's telling me this is all I've ever known, so I don't know if I can live life with arms because I wouldn't know what to do with them. So, having that perspective of empathy instead of pity, and knowing that the people are people first and they're not their disability first, they're people first and to trust that they can be their own advocates, that they can be their own voice and they can stand up for themselves and they have ways and systems in place to accomplish things that will be surprisingly effective in our own lives, because we've learned how to do things that way and they just have to trust that they can find their way and figure things out, because a lot of times there's that lack of trust in what someone can achieve.

Speaker 2: 1:05:25

Yeah, Again, you know, as you point back, first of all, you know your story just shows you what's possible when we allow ourselves and we're supported to engage, what we deeply care about and expressing that through our contribution, what's possible. So the second thing is, you know the limitations that get appeared. That we have any problem with somebody that appears to be quote unquote disabled is our own limitation that we have to overcome, which is an opportunity to overcome that limitation, and that's a good thing. So it's again we all serve each other if we can stay open to it. And by having people around you that are quote unquote different, whatever, but are contributing to the team and making things happen, is a rich experience that you almost don't want to deny people from having. And that kind of brings me to another thing and a couple more questions and we'll close out here.

Speaker 2: 1:06:21

Another thing and a couple more questions and we'll close out here, but I know this is kind of your. You also have your own team right now that's working on a project to create the first exclusively foot controlled airplane. I wanted to get to this as tell, tell them, tell, and we're going to have a link below if you want to learn more and contribute to this, which is a really cool project. Tell us a little bit about that project, what the journey's been like and where you're at in that journey to create that first of its kind airplane.

Speaker 3: 1:06:51

Just this morning I got an update on how this build is coming together and it was very. It was awesome to see a picture, because an airplane and the airplane we're building starts off as a kit. You essentially get this big kit and it's in a big crate and you get these crates. It's the wings, it's the tail, it's the fuselage and you have to put this together and sometimes it takes a decade for someone to do this and put it together in their garage personally as one.

Speaker 3: 1:07:22

But there's this amazing team that has volunteered to take on the build of this airplane and this is in Tom's River, New Jersey, and it's an EAA chapter Experimental Aviation Association. It's a chapter of people building this airplane for the sake of our impossible airplane. They're building it and here in Arizona, where I live, we're creating these modifications with many engineers that have incredible ideas of how to engineer this plane in a way that can be just foot controlled in the left pilot and command seat and together bring it into this major project. We hope that we'll be finished by the end of next year. A foot-controlled airplane. It's never been done before. It's the first of its kind and it will really show the world that disability doesn't mean inability, and that we can engineer a world that is accessible for all and all abilities. So it is becoming such a big project and I'm realizing that it's becoming bigger every day because so many people want to be, you know, in on this project and we're hoping to continue to have support from those around who are excited about it.

Speaker 2: 1:08:38

And so where would you say? I mean, I know it's hard to say when, but are you getting close to where are you at in the trajectory of the project in your assessment?

Speaker 3: 1:08:51

Well, the wings are finished, the tail's finished and now the fuselage is still being finished up. We have to get an engine in that plane, of course. That's important.

Speaker 3: 1:09:02

That's important, yes, and so that's probably about a, you know, a little less than a year away for completion.

Speaker 3: 1:09:11

But then the modifications and the experimentation on the controls is probably the hardest part because it's never been done before and you see, we test it out on the simulator for test it out for safety and reliance especially.

Speaker 3: 1:09:25

You know, if you eventually take it in the air and take it into the skies, you're going to want to make sure that it's 100 percent sure, 110 percent sure, that this is a reliable modification and it's safe. It's probably going to be a lot of trial and error and experimentation to figure out that it's all connected in with the controls that are already you know, the controls that have existed. And then, once that's done, we will probably have some pilots who feel safe to take it up and test it out and then eventually, you know, I'll be able to do some transition training to get into that, because this is a lot more complicated of an airplane than what I have been flying. It's a lot faster, so it's a lot more power, it's a lot, a lot more going on, so it's not like I could just hop in there Like I've been flying the other plane, but it's going to take a lot of transition, that's great Well, thanks for sharing that whole trajectory.

Speaker 2: 1:10:26

That's very exciting, and if people feel inspired, how can they help? What is it? I can provide a link, but one way is financially. Any other way that people could be helping what would be most helpful right now?

Speaker 3: 1:10:41

We really need a lot of help financially to finish this project off. It's the impossibleairplanecom and they're more than welcome to check out how this is progressing and how we can continue to build up the first plane in aviation history that can be flown with feet alone. We appreciate all the support. Of course, this is a big group effort and we're excited about what it's going to mean flying it around the world to places where, again, where there's still a lot of stigma about disability.

Speaker 2: 1:11:17

Yeah, it's a beautiful mission. Well, we'll also make sure that URL is available in all the podcasts, various links, so people can link to that directly. So thanks for sharing about that.

Speaker 3: 1:11:44

So, if you had to say, you know, round it out with one final message that you'd just like to share with the executives out there that are listening, or other leaders or other individuals that tuned into the podcast about anything that you'd like to share to feel complete today, what would that final message be? I think I'll just summarize that, in the three-step process of aviate, navigate, communicate and how important that is, as a leader, to be able to be the pilot of your organization, your corporation, and recognize that that leadership role is critical for success. And remember that you know we have a lot more capabilities than we even imagined If we put ourselves in those positions of stretching ourselves, of being uncomfortable, of facing our fears and having to persevere.

Speaker 2: 1:12:28

Well, thank you. Thank you so much, Jessica, for sharing all that and sharing your mission with us and all the inspiring steps that you've taken and how you embrace life as an authentic, courageous leader yourself. It's been such an incredible conversation. So again, Jet, thanks for joining on the show today.

Speaker 3: 1:12:48

Thank you, David. Take care and keep inspiring the leaders out there. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 1:12:53

I will, and for all of you tuning in. Thank you for being a part of this journey with us. Your time and attention is precious to me. If you found today's discussion valuable and I don't know how you could not please spread the word by letting your colleagues, your friends and anybody else know the benefit from knowing about the Unfazed Under Fire podcast, and specifically this show with Jessica. And remember you can catch all this and all other episodes in video format on YouTube, in audio on Apple Podcasts, spotify, amazon Music and 13 other platforms. Until next time, keep growing in your authentic expression as a leader, leading with purpose, uplifting those around you and making an impact. Have a great rest of your day. This is David Kringatz, the Leadership Alchemist, signing off.