Speaker 1: 0:11

Welcome to Unfazed Under Fire, a podcast designed to elevate your leadership and amplify your impact. Each episode offers valuable insights to help you transform your vision into reality, cultivate high-performing cultures that attract top talents, and navigate the complexities of today's uncertain, chaotic world with confidence and clarity. Now tuning into your needs, here's your host and moderator, seasoned executive coach and leadership alchemist, david Craig Utz.

Speaker 2: 0:44

For the past three years, we've been fed a story about the Russia-Ukraine conflict, one shaped by media spin, political agendas and global power plays. But how much of this is the truth? How much of what we think we know is actually manipulation? Today we break through the noise in this special edition of Unfazed Under Fire, and I'm very excited to bring on a person who is uniquely positioned to cut through the misinformation my co-host, anatoly Yakovlev.

Speaker 2: 1:13

Many of you may not be aware that Anatoly was born and raised in Russia. He was trained in psychological operations and was a firsthand witness to the fall of the Soviet Union and the rise of Vladimir Putin. And was a firsthand witness to the fall of the Soviet Union and the rise of Vladimir Putin. Anatoly has also served as a bridge between Eastern and Western business cultures, having spent decades helping American companies navigate the Russian market. Finally, with family still in Ukraine, he carries a perspective that both is deeply informed and profoundly personal.

Speaker 2: 1:46

Now, this conversation couldn't be more timely, as peace negotiations are shifting the global landscape. We're diving deep in, beyond the headlines, into the hidden forces driving this war, the geopolitical realities reshaping power and the business opportunities emerging as US-Russia relations thaw. We'll also examine how psychological warfare has been used relations thaw. We'll also examine how psychological warfare has been used, not just abroad but right here in the US, to shape public opinion. This isn't just another discussion. It's an invitation to an important perspective shift. Anatoly I'm thrilled to have you with this special edition of Unfaced Under.

Speaker 3: 2:23

Fire. Thanks for being here. We're looking forward to this conversation. Yes, thank you, david. I'm very happy to be on your podcast because what you're doing is incredibly important okay, providing an angle on the role of leadership and how this could be viewed within the context of our complex reality, and so I'm very happy to be on your program.

Speaker 3: 2:44

And just because you provide the focus on leadership and help business people understand how it can make sense of this. So I will try to also control my tangents and provide just enough information within the bounds of your focus, because I don't want to inundate people with irrelevant information. So just to share only basic, relevant points, just to help build that narrative for us to go forward.

Speaker 2: 3:10

So okay, yeah, what I want to do is let's frame the show a little bit. Let me share what we're going to share so that people understand what we're going to be covering in the podcast, and we're going to be covering six critical areas. You'll be providing a unique perspective, as we said, your understanding of the Russian and Ukrainian history, culture and politics, and why it matters more than ever. Second, we'll explore the psychology of influence and brainwashing, specifically how PSYOP strategies are used to shape public opinion and how political and media narratives are used to engage these tactics, including in the US, and we'll touch on the US application of those things. We'll look beyond the Russian-Ukrainian headlines and explore the heart of the conflict through the eyes of somebody you who understands both sides.

Speaker 2: 3:57

We'll also examine Trump's leadership role in creating global stability by exploring your take on Trump's leadership Now it's Influencing Peace Efforts and Reshaping Global Dynamics. We'll touch on the thawing relations between US and Russia, and we know that this week was just announced that a major economic partnership is forming between the two countries. That could really provide opportunities for American businesses and we're going to touch on your insights on what American businesses can be thinking about to navigate that evolving landscape. And finally, we'll touch on the role of conscious leadership and global transformation, as I said, how elevating leadership consciousness can lead to greater peace, prosperity and a more unified world. So that's a good number of things to cover.

Speaker 2: 4:39

It's a very robust show, so let's dive in. And what I'd like you to share first is give us a little flavor of your life growing up in Russia and how it shaped some of them. You've been around in some of the most pivotal moments in Russian history and seeing them firsthand, with a front-row seat. So can you walk us through your early years in the Soviet Union, your time in the military and how you came to work in Syops, and what it was like when the Soviet Union fell and how these experiences kind of shaped your worldview?

Speaker 3: 5:08

Okay, well, let's dive in then. I think my life experience can provide some context for what we're witnessing today. So back in the Soviet days it's more like mid-'80s so when I was being trained to become a liaison community officer for for Afghanistan, with some background and psyops, you know, I actually gradually began to explore what that war meant, as I was learning more about, you know, heinous crimes in the world these days. But it made a huge impact on me then because I conducted my own investigation into this and was horrified as I was grasping with that reality, and that really shaped my late, you know, teen years and then later years growing up. But growing up, you know, it was important to know that my dad was in the Air Force and I was practically raised by the Special Forces Unit, so-called SPATSNAZ, like you know you probably heard it from the American flicks, which is a rough comparison to, maybe, you know, the US Ranger Regiment or the British, you know, sas Special Air Service, and I was used as a direct toy by those guys to kind of. They really tried to teach me, you know, some hard knocks of life and to toughen me up, and that helped me later a great deal when I became a cadet at the military academy. So combining martial arts and mental toughness really helped me for sure. But even when I was a cadet, you know, I want to to point out a few interesting elements, because we were learning a lot, not just from the Soviet propaganda Kool-Aid, but we were learning a lot from American manuals on psyops, just like Field Manual 33 and 1 on psychological operations that was used by the US Army in the 70s. Army in the 70s, you know, just basically covered the principles and how the planning stages and execution of PSYOP campaigns were meant to be conducted, including the use of propaganda, leaflets, radio broadcasts and all kinds of media, including spreading rumors to influence enemy forces and civilian populations. So think about it like you know, the Soviets used American brainwashing techniques, just like some anti-ultra stuff, to promote a grander cause. But I have to tell you that the Soviet Union did have some soft power as well, Because when you start talking about free health, access to that, free housing, no joblessness, it must have really helped shape a bit of a more humane touch for conditions of people in the Western population as well, because of that fierce competition those days.

Speaker 3: 7:53

So well, after about a decade yeah, it was a decade of war in Afghanistan. The troops were pulled out just right before my graduation in 1990. And I was sort of freed to go from there and to help matters further. The Soviet Union decided to collapse in 1991. And I was really set free by those events to do something else with my life.

Speaker 3: 8:16

But that part of my life heavily was influenced by my perspective on war and peace, because later on I learned more about the plight of Afghan people and the crimes committed later even by the US, british and Australian troops and other despicable crimes in nature for which no one went to jail. But Trump's call for peace among the warmongering in Europe and what's going on and all this insanity resonated deeply with me. And I just want to point out a few things that I did just recently with my colleagues at the Conscious Enterprises Network. To counter that ongoing incessant warmongering we launched an initiative called the Peace Charter and just two weeks ago we had this official launch just to really give business a chance to say something on those matters.

Speaker 3: 9:05

Because usually you know businesses are never consulted about. You know how they're impacted by the ongoing hostilities and a decade ago, when I founded the World Without Corruption initiative, basically I had the same idea in mind. You know the businesses. They need to be given a chance to say something on matters of corruption and, of course, on matters of war and peace.

Speaker 2: 9:28

Very good. Well, that's quite a set of experiences you've had, and you also saw Russia evolve from the Soviet era to now modern-day Putin's Russia. So how has his rise of power reshaped the Russian psyche and national identity, and what are your thoughts about his leadership?

Speaker 3: 9:46

Well, this is an interesting comparison because if you look at Putin versus Trump, you know it's like a spook versus a businessman right, they really don't have much in common.

Speaker 3: 9:56

However, one thing that you may look and admire is that the rise of that strong authority, when you know people kind of really like have a bit of a strong leader and we've never really had any strong leaders since the end of the World War II. Really, I mean, why does it have to be a war to bring forth, you know, bigger leaders, which is really strange, you know. But this is what we are dealing with and, yes, you know, before we go into Putin, it's interesting that when I spent some time working with my Democrat friends and I observed certain things that kind of made me wonder where their mindset came from, because when I asked them if they were like patriots of their own country, they kind of looked at me like, oh, you're an idiot who wants to talk about it. And then when I saw that during the anthem I mean the US anthem they never really paid any attention.

Speaker 3: 10:47

They were busy with their phones, and some of them even remained seated. So I began to think like well, you know, this is interesting. Why would someone you know dislike their country so much? Well, at the same time don't mind pillaging it, because I looked at Russia and we had the same situation.

Speaker 3: 11:02

So, the Russian, you know population well, less so, but it was equally split between so-called liberals that were using a lot of bad-mouthing and stuff like that. At the same time, some of them were funded by the USAID, which now you know, know what happened to it, mr Fong and at the same time, those oligarchs who were, you know, pillaging Russia and parking their reaches outside in the West. So if you look at all of that, it just creates a pretty crazy show humanity than having dilapidated and corrupt institutions combined with a lot of incessant, you know, brainwashing and conditioning that comes with it, you know. So what do we choose? Do we deal with deeply seated public institutions that pursue their own role and, like Trump just said, you know, those bureaucrats, they're self-serving. Well, it's not different from Russia, because any bureau.

Speaker 2: 12:04

Yeah, I was just going to say it's very similar, I'm sure, to the institutions there. Right, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 12:09

The moment they feel they have become institutionalized, then they promote their own agenda. They don't care whoever gets elected. So that's why, you know, in my first and the only trip to Washington DC, when I met, you know, leaders of the not leaders, but representatives of the deep state, you know, people get born into those roles and they retire from those roles regardless of who runs the country. And that just reminded me of the Soviet Union, you know the Soviet Union bureaucracy was exactly that way.

Speaker 3: 12:37

You just have to pledge your alliance only once, just to become a communist, and they're taken care of for life. So now think about who benefits from that. It's definitely US taxpayer dollars. You know that go into deep pockets and some very crazy projects. You know that they pursue.

Speaker 3: 12:56

It's the same everywhere, be that Russia, be that the US, be that Europe. And of course, the bureaucracy will fight back. They will fight tooth and nail. So, yes, there's a difference, because when I look at Trump, I think I kind of admire the guy because he's been through a lot, beaten up by the press like no one. I mean, putin has never gone through that right, so he was kind of spared that and that's why he had a lot of time on his hands to carefully craft, you know, his own empire and have so many people working for him to do that.

Speaker 3: 13:26

You know, if you look around for other examples, you know even Iran. They don't have that much ideology, right, they just have the religion. But you know they developed in a very similar fashion. So, you know, I understand that. You know that, even though nobody talks about it.

Speaker 3: 13:41

But the dams were in love with Putin for a long time because they were getting a lot of perks from that relationship, you know, and they were using the same playbook that they were using for, you know, regarding race migration and stuff like that and the way they would deal with the, you know, general population and you know. But these days, what Trump brought forth is the ability to suddenly see that double standards remain double standards, regardless what country you apply them to. Now, just to give an example when the International Criminal Court, you know, decided that Putin is a military criminal and then Netanyahu, you know, joined the list, suddenly, you know, germany's new chancellor said like oh, now Netanyahu can come over to Germany, it doesn't matter what the criminal court says. And Polat did the same, but if Putin goes anywhere, we'll address him.

Speaker 3: 14:31

And those double standards are just glaring. Ok, and no one raises his bushy eyebrow over that.

Speaker 2: 14:38

Well, anything you want, yeah, that's all I don't think Americans realize. I love the comparison of the Soviet Union and the clear corruption that goes on in those institutions for lifelong institutional players, and I don't think I think America is just beginning to wake up because of those. You know the things that are happening. Regardless, if you think about that, things are being revealed in a certain way people don't want to look at, but aren't that we're seeing is that we've had the same, maybe more shiny corruption that has been covered up and that has been not in the purview of Americans. I appreciate you saying that, but as you move, to just go back is real quickly, when Putin came into power, it has. How has he changed Russia? What is his leadership style? How do you view that and how has he changed russia? What, what, what is his leadership style? How do you view that and how has he changed russia?

Speaker 3: 15:27

well, let's put it this way. So basically what he normally talks about, that he kind of stopped the lawlessness and all that that you know during the breakup of the soviet union for an entire decade uh, we had a lot of lawlessness and when oligarchs came to power and so basically he's just saying that he brained a lot of law and order. Well, as you understand that, you know, in a truly democratic country you have all sorts of checks and balances and normally you talk about like you know independent judiciary, you know free press and all that. Well, you can't really have all of that in a country when it's run in some authoritarian fashion. Okay, because this is something that we will also see, whether that will happen with Trump in due course. Right, because the entire press in the US is all Democrat, right, so liberal and stuff like that.

Speaker 3: 16:18

Now in Russia these days, since Putin did away with the liberal press and this is like tightly controlled and you just don't really get much dissent, which is really get stamped out. But now do we really see what's the right way in the middle? You know, on one hand, you do have the institutions that work. On the other hand, you don't have much. You know free press, but at the same time, nobody really complains about other authoritarian countries like Singapore. Singapore is equally authoritarian, but it's praised and just because, well, yeah, they have really tough laws, if you spit on the pavement you get five, five hundred US dollars, if not more, and stuff like that. So it's governed like with the iron hand. Now Putin is doing something similar with a much larger country.

Speaker 3: 17:08

Now, the way Russia is governed doesn't really contribute much to the population in terms of how the economy is doing and whether the really free market forces are being used. Well, with all the stuff that's going on right now, definitely you don't see much of that, but the idea is at some point it's going to stop being a gravy train for anybody. So whoever just realizes that? Well, because we all split up over, like, okay, justice over economy. So when a lot of people they really want to have to see justice done at the same time, so when a lot of people really want to have to see justice done at the same time, everybody's hurting from what's going on. And you know what really is interesting? Trump saw that opportunity to use the economy and hold people accountable in the process, and he makes it very clear let's step out of this ideological divide who is doing what and how? Because we all know a lot of people got away with crimes and a lot of big names Okay.

Speaker 1: 18:08

So just like I gave you an example Netanyahu versus Putin, right, it's the same thing.

Speaker 3: 18:13

So Putin did deliver. You know, his own version of capitalism, as it was called, and is still called, like crony capitalism. But you know, like in lots of countries, people you know give and you know share their power with their friends, right? I mean, okay, what can you do about that? You know, can you still work with that? You know same thing with like with the. You know that example I provided with Singapore. You know, yes, it was a bit different when Lee Kuan Yew put his friends behind. You know, bars and things changed. But once he died, well, who was doing what? It's not really clear. So we're looking now at the situation whether leaders can be judged by their actions and what those actions will actually provide. I think it's much better just to go beyond the words, because it's been three years of ongoing bloodshed and carnage and that needs to stop, because nobody can go any further, because that has become a war of attrition by definition. So that's what we're dealing with, and whoever can put a stop to that will be viewed as a true leader.

Speaker 2: 19:16

Absolutely Well we're going to get to that more in a moment about the terrible conflict and what's your view on that, about the terrible conflict and what's your view on that. And I wanted to step into this and we touched on that in some of your opening comments about your experience in Russia and the changes that happened that you saw. You served in PSYOPs right when you saw firsthand how mass influence and racial rainwashing strategies work. You touched on that a little bit earlier. How are these tactics deployed in an attempt to change, to shape the psyche of an entire population? What are the mechanisms that we can be aware of in our own media landscape and political landscape to see these things so that we can have those distinctions?

Speaker 3: 20:00

Well, I wouldn't say I served in PSYOPs because technically I was a cadet and then when I graduated I quit the army and then the Soviet Union fell apart.

Speaker 2: 20:07

So you were early on in your career.

Speaker 3: 20:09

Yeah, but I learned a lot about how that stuff is done, and this is where you really begin to see the pattern, and the pattern is very universal. How propaganda works. It just goes back to the Nazi propaganda, right. So why it was so successful? Well, same principles that they had then are applied these days, right? So it's the idea of the whole centralized control, that all of the stuff that's being distributed runs through one specific filtering system and that provides the uniformity of the media, right? And one thing that probably will resonate with us more is that back in the mid-30s, in Nazi Germany, they really focused on the technological innovation, you know, adoption of the radio and distribution of the radios. You know, film, using any visual media they could to promote the narrative. You know, and we know, like we see that. You know, we see that more so with the US than with Russia, like with the big tech that decidedly play a role in distributing the propaganda.

Speaker 3: 21:15

Now, some principles that are very, very simple. Speaking of simplicity, you grab complex ideas and you reduce them to some very, very simple but emotionally charged and resonant messages. Okay. And then you use that repeatedly. You know, you recreate and you redundantly use the same theme over and over again, but you do it across multiple channels to disguise the fact that it's the same theme. And then you know, like really exploiting existing, exploiting existing prejudices, be that racial or anything else. You know it's definitely one of the that's usually they kind of put it on. You know the right-leaning outlets, but it's actually it's the same.

Speaker 3: 21:56

You know, if you look across the board, you know the creation of enemies, adversaries, specific words for them, you know, and how it's done in a way that you know you very quickly go from being calling someone an extremist or terrorist and to Nazi and all that, so throwing those words around and nobody's held accountable. That creates this idea of lawlessness that people can get away with it because nobody's used them right and it just opens this whole can of worms. And then what's really sometimes is, uh, important to understand that there's a lot of kind of pseudo-scientific backing and you using a lot of various crazy ideas to camouflage the information that is being disseminated, you know. And then, though, like you, combine that also with certain events to kind of disguise it even further, like olympics, you know certain things that would be like making a splashing on the main news, but certain ideas that they sometimes use is very effective.

Speaker 3: 22:54

What is the most effective thing is creating a fear, right, but mixing fear and hope creates a very strange perception and really confuses people, you know. Know, because you throw in like one thread but then you kind of coat it with something else and you play it down, you know, and you use that a lot to actually keep people totally confused. Now, also, at the same time, I was wondering that how many shrinks actually, you know, participate in creating that very complex level of propaganda and brainwashing, because sometimes you cannot help but notice certain psychological manipulation techniques that normally are used only for the abandonment of a human species. But you see that sometimes getting weaponized, and that actually makes me worry, because people get away with it right and nobody will be held accountable for that, even though the use of propaganda against their own population, I think, has been dubbed as a crime sometime earlier. But it still remains to be seen how we deal with the aftermath of that.

Speaker 2: 24:03

Well, so what I'm hearing is that there's an interrelationship between political forces, media sources and technology like big tech. The question is is that at some level, somebody's driving all that? So in those is the political the political forces I would take are driving that and forming these relationships because of a shared ideology. Are deriving that and forming these relationships because of a shared ideology? I'm not sure. Probably the ideology is even created for the ultimate goal that those people have. It's going to support them in reaching the goal, which is more control. So check, here is a central theme. Where is the like?

Speaker 2: 24:38

If you look at the US right now and look at what we've dealt with, you know we were announced coming out that a lot of lies were totaled during COVID, for example. So many lies and, to your point, all scientific information was used to reinforce. This is the right message. And you can't take vitamin D because that's pie in the sky. You have to stay with the vaccine, but forget that. That's misinformation. Cancel that, take that off Facebook. But what is the central force that is driving this? How do they develop those relationships such that they're in sync, even to the point where you can watch news broadcasts on a particular day and go across the country to different cities and see newscasters saying identical content in sync. That is reinforcing it across different cities.

Speaker 3: 25:30

Well, okay, so, yeah, I cannot really go deep into identifying who's behind, who's doing this and how it all came together, because that could be viewed as being, uh, being insensitive, but I know where it's coming from, you know, and we have the same problem in russia and there is the same problem, you know, elsewhere. But it's interesting, like let's just focus on the fact that it has been converted into the real art of propaganda, right, I mean, it's like, really, it's amazing, like these days we have people who are completely brainwashed, I mean like the, like the people I know, you know, both in Russia, outside of Russia, you know, like you can't really go into anything because it triggers the Trump der. The roots of that propaganda is Noam Chomsky in the United States, who was specifically looking at. Why is that? The so-called democratic propaganda has evolved to be that way? Because compare that to the Russian authoritarian propaganda, which is very direct and very obvious. Right, it lacks the complexity being used by so-called free press, because it actually uses a very complex system to push forth the narrative. And you know why is it so complex? Because it takes two different things. It takes the economic incentive to create that propaganda, because it's all based on managing advertising revenues and it's not really about subscriptions, just basically creating some appropriate consumption environment and stories that might depress, disturb and alienate consumers they would not really like that because they're not commercially desirable. But creating this complex mechanisms so that you convert that into the stream of money and at the same time create the symbiotic relationship where the media works directly with officials and supports their narrative right, and also ease up on professional constraints.

Speaker 3: 27:48

Because let's look around these days, well, journalism is dead. Anywhere you go you see propaganda, you know people under the guise of journalism promoting specific narratives. So, well, let's, you know, let's call a spade a spade. Okay, they're not journalists, right, because they already breached the boundaries of what's acceptable and what's not. And even if you look at the career incentives, it's all about how much you can really rile the populace, so to speak, and that just creates a totally different incentive. All the pools of experts and reasoning is gone and the ideas are all about how you create emotionally charged news.

Speaker 3: 28:30

But you know, this is the problem, because people can only stay in that emotionally disturbed state for this long, because then you know, your psyche kind of gives up and you can no longer handle it Unless you have reached a stage when you have become so brainwashed, so then there's no going back. You get totally hijacked by this narrative. You can only consume by default that type of media that sustains you in that state. So that's a brilliant way of managing this type of propaganda, according to, again, to Noam Chomsky, because when he states that you know the appearance of this press, it just maintains this appearance because it achieves the same outcome as the direct censorship in the authoritarian country you know.

Speaker 3: 29:21

So those people who consider themselves to be journalists, they don't feel constrained, right. They think like they're doing the right thing, because the critical thinking is switched off and they fully are immersed in. What they're doing is the only thing to present the information. So now, when the money trickling, you know kind of like, stops, it creates a new competitive environment for people who can really truly do the journalism work and they could take over from the propaganda people. Now there would not be even journalists. So maybe this will create a new generation of the real free press.

Speaker 2: 30:05

Well, remains to be seen. Well, I think that's emerging. If you look at Greenwald or Sheldon Berger or Taimi, there is a growing alternative. They don't call it alternative. I think it's becoming the main source for a lot of people that these are people that think they ground it. They're critical thinking. They push against, sometimes their own narratives when they find out that the facts don't so this is still real.

Speaker 2: 30:30

Journalism is alive. It's just not in the boob tube, so to speak, and we've seen this like ideological. We know the talk to touch on deep ideological divisions that this has created in the US, as you pointed to, you can't speak to somebody. What I'm hearing you say is the psychic is so overwhelmed at a certain point it just accepts the message and it doesn't. It gets.

Speaker 2: 30:53

We become lazy when you're brainwashed. You become lazy. Even if you're delivered a video that shows factually you're incorrect, you won't even watch it because your psyche says done, time out, we're not doing this anymore. This is what I believe, and now I'm just going to argue this white, and if you start throwing facts at me, my last recourse is just to call you names. That's the last recourse. And you know, when somebody's brainwashed and you're like you can show them something factual. They say say you're a maniac. That's why I'm having the conversation I'm seeing. You know this woke agenda that's been utilized in the united states. Um, it's very similar to the propaganda that you're speaking of and and and.

Speaker 2: 31:36

In a certain way, what I'm sensing from this is a real short answer on this one. The powers to be don't even care about the philosophy. What's behind the philosophy? Do they really care about transgender people? Do they really care about the plight of ukrainians? Messages they do, but that seems like the method is not. They're they're they're up to something else. They're wanting something else. Is that fair to say?

Speaker 3: 31:58

well, it's actually very simple. It's all about about money, right? Because if you look at all these projects that are being reviewed that the USAID sponsored, technically there's a very tiny piece of it gets to the targeted audience, right? So basically, it's all about how much money stays in the pockets of the ones who manage the money flow.

Speaker 3: 32:19

Nobody really cares, you know about like, for example, let's look at the situation with Ukraine. Okay, they keep pouring a lot of money in. At the same time they say it's remains a very corrupt country. Okay, so my question is like if you put in so much money and then you say it remains corrupt, so what? What are you going to do about it? You know, do you see again?

Speaker 2: 33:03

no-transcript serve in a quote-unquote military operation given. First of all, you have family in Ukraine that are Russian nationals and you didn't want to go into. You saw with nature what the conflict was and you didn't want to go fight your family. What is your personal opinion about how this evolved? This conflict evolved and what is at the heart of it and that maybe Americans don't fully appreciate because of your understanding of the relationship between these two countries and the reasoning for this happening?

Speaker 3: 33:39

Well, that's a tough one because you see, technically speaking, anything I say, people say there's so much divisiveness around this topic, so I can only say it from my very, very small perspective.

Speaker 3: 33:50

Okay so, okay let's put it this way, I'm the only Russian passport holder in my family. Okay, so my, basically everybody in my family is a Ukrainian citizen. So, but currently my mom is a refugee in Ireland. My other family members are spread, you know, between Poland and Portugal, with half of my family remaining in Ukraine. Okay, so I'm kind of stuck between the two countries, you know. So it's like in Russia, they hate me for having my immediate family in Ukraine. In Ukraine, they hate me for being a Russian passport holder. So you know, it's a catch-22. You know, when I went to bury my father in 2020, you know, they didn't want to let me cross the border. I mean, the Ukrainians said, like well, there's got to be somebody else to bury your father, go back. And I was not the only one, there were lots of people in the same position. So I'm just saying, you know, okay, let's look at the nature of this whole situation.

Speaker 3: 34:44

I don't want to go much into history and all that. I'll just give you one simple fact. You know, ukrainians are very different from Russians and they're much tougher. They're more commercially driven and you know, as we used to say a lot, that in Russia they would compete with any Jew, you know, because they're so savvy when it comes to doing things. So it's not a surprise that a majority of Ukrainians did very well in Putin's Russia.

Speaker 3: 35:09

If you look at the names in the Forbes list of people who are billionaires, you will only see one Russian name Potanin. The rest of them, like other people, they're not really ethnic Russians. Same thing, if you look at the army, you look at the special forces, you look at the intelligence agencies, all you see ethnic Ukrainian names. Why is that? It's because ever since Bolsheviks came to power, they embarked on the ethnic cleansing of ethnic Russians. You know there were too many Russians. You know it's kind of difficult, you know to run them.

Speaker 3: 35:42

So, basically, by hook or by crook, you know they really reduced the population of ethnic Russians quite a bit and they never really allowed them to make any careers. And then, over time, just like some Darwinistic experiment, you know, russians did become a bit lazy, non-competitive, so on and so forth. Okay, so this is just one fact. If you look at it from this perspective, you think, oh, when the war broke out, how could it be? Well, this is the thing, because, you know, if you really switch on the critical thinking and you look at the people who are leading technically all the military operations and all the I mean all of that stuff that was going on. It was so crazy and so surreal that the cognitive dissonance would just kick in, because it doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 2: 36:28

So you have military leaders on the Russian side that have Ukrainian roots that are orchestrating this war against Ukraine on the Russian side.

Speaker 3: 36:38

This has always been historically the case. They did so much better than ethnic Russians. You know you won't see much of like common ethnic Russian names like Petrov, ivanov, right, and, like I said, you know, same thing applies to commerce, and you know, across the board. But for anybody outside of Russia, they see this. It's Russians doing this Russophobia that kicked in as a result, you know. Then the Baltic states started like, really, you know, kicking out ethnic Russians for not being able to speak the language. You know, even if you're 80 years old, you get kicked out of the country. So I mean, there's so much of misconception and just lies. You know so that people, when they look at this, they think whatever they get from the news, that must be the only true. But reality is totally different and I'm not going deep into this and any other differences. I understand there's a lot.

Speaker 2: 37:32

So this is a very complex. It's a very complex situation and you know we have to honor the time we have, but it is also interesting narrative we're being told, which is, of course, I feel, for the ukrainian. We want to talk, you touch on how your family's doing and what your, what their experience has been, which I can't imagine. It's been anything but horrendous, but that the idea that we're we're here to help the ukrainian people and pouring this money in when that wasn't, I don't believe, was the ultimate agenda, and the other side of field, the people that are fighting on the side that we're against, are fundamentally led by Ukrainian military leaders. It's sad, really sad, and very tough to hear. How has your family dealt with this situation in Ukraine, that you've been in communication with, with this situation in Ukraine and you've been in communication with them and I can't imagine how difficult it's been.

Speaker 3: 38:28

But what are they dealing with on the other side in this war? Well, yeah, well, that's interesting. Because you know my parents. They voted for Zelensky during the presidential elections because, again, speaking of the propaganda, you know he actually conducted a very elaborate campaign to win over the hearts and minds of Ukrainian people, because, you know, being a comedian, but then, because of his TV show and the Servant of the People that was launched in 2015, a lot of people really placed their trust in him, so my parents also voted for him. Well, it was a bit different for the rest of the family. They had different opinions and stuff like that.

Speaker 3: 39:07

And, of course, you know, being Ukrainian citizens, you know they reeled from shock when the invasion started and I mean, it's absolutely understandable. You know and I don't want to go much into this because there's so much of it like you know where the Putin didn't want NATO to get closer to the borders and stuff like that, who did what and why. You know it's the whole information. The whole truth is buried under very thick layers, but let's focus on just the emotional side of it. Right of it.

Speaker 3: 39:38

Right, it was just a horrible experience and the kind of a shock and terror that you know, very few people could really understand, unless you really end up in that situation, because, you know, most people deal with the news and deal with the fact that this is going on, and they really supported a lot of Ukrainians outside of Ukraine who left.

Speaker 3: 40:00

It doesn't matter, if you know, if people were fleeing for their lives, including the Ukrainian males who didn't want to really die in the trenches. Okay, so we are dealing with a lot of like ethical and more, you know, issues of morality, you know. So it's a tough one. It's a tough one to really look at because you know it's all about. Is it about your survival, I mean you or is it like, are you going to be like a volunteer, go and die, or are you going to be drafted or like what they use right now, a situation when people are in no hurry to go and allow themselves to be drafted and they even created a term in Ukraine called busification from the word bus when they were using the vans to actually hunt down people on the streets and, you know, draft them using the brutal force.

Speaker 2: 40:52

I saw videos of them going into educational centers where these young people were and pulling them out of educational centers.

Speaker 3: 40:59

Yes, that's right.

Speaker 2: 40:59

Yes. So that's why a lot of people are hiding. They weren't taken because they volunteered.

Speaker 3: 41:04

No, no, well, because you see, it's been three years and the war of attrition kicks in, you know, because people just realize that, okay, we cannot reclaim the territory. So shall we continue sacrificing our young or maybe not so young, you know people? You know, let them all die. So it's going to continue. I mean, you see what I'm saying? It's like it's a catch-22. It's a dead end. So what Trump has done is like okay, guys, you seem to be unable to finish this war, so I can step in and give you a chance. Okay, I mean like look, I mean let's put it this way. I mean, I read the Ukrainian press, you know, and basically they keep mudslinging and badmouthing Trump. Okay, and today I saw a very small headline in the Ukrainian Pravda, you know, when they say the National Endowment for Democracy is cutting money to us as a media outlet so we can no longer badmouth Trump because that money is not coming through. I mean they don't even realize how crazy it sounds.

Speaker 2: 42:11

You openly say that you get that.

Speaker 3: 42:14

USAID and ANED money, and that was the only reason why you were badmouthing and heaping insultss on trump. And it's happening the same day when they reach the deal on the rare earth minerals, right? You see how crazy that is. That people cannot even see what they're doing is like totally deranged. So, by the way, well, yeah, yeah, what?

Speaker 3: 42:39

I want to mention one more thing about the Baltic states, because this is another thing I saw in the Ukrainian press when the former head of the Lithuanian foreign affairs, lasbergis, was saying don't listen to Trump, keep on fighting, okay. This is interesting, you see. He's like saying like, okay, well, whatever Trump has to offer, you don't have to take it, just keep on fighting, we are with you. Well, at the same time, you know, it's really crazy this whole warmongering coming from small Baltic states, right To tell people go and die and don't pin your hopes to Trump. You see, it's like it's again. I'm just, I'm just using, you know, from today's editions of the Ukrainian press. So this needs to stop and Trump is doing the best he can.

Speaker 2: 43:25

Well, for some in the US, if you look at Zelensky, he's a heroic figure for us, I mean, and he is pumped up in the press as this great leader who's, of course, leading his country through duress. I'm just curious what your view of his leadership is and if you had said your family voted for him, if there's been any shift in views in your perspective and the Ukrainian people towards the perspective of what you hear.

Speaker 3: 43:52

Yeah, well, like, look my family, just like anybody else, right, they really want this bloodshed to stop. I mean, technically speaking, let's put it this way Is there a chance to win this war with Russia? Well, it's a much bigger country with more resources, right, and sanctions have not really crippled Russia. So let's again remember what Trump said it's time for common sense. Let's apply common sense here. Okay, I mean dealing with grief and understanding. Processing all those heinous crimes and casualties is a different story, right, but you can't really break it up and like, focus on this and not do something else. So, whoever does something right now, this will be, I think, welcomed, even if people are not ready for this way of stopping the war.

Speaker 2: 44:40

But you said the budget has to stop. It's terrible. What's been going on there and what's the return been? There has been zero return on this. You've been speaking about Donald Trump throughout this with some positive flavor to it. So as you compare, as you look at him as a leader and look at his first 30 days in office, how do you view him? And this is coming from a perspective You're not in the American culture, You're not in these battles between this separation we're dealing with. You're coming from a perspective from being a Russian watching him operate. What is your impressions of his first 30 days in office and who he is as a leader?

Speaker 3: 45:22

Well, you know, probably his actions speak much better than his words, right, because he's using a very unique combination of trolling the public and the media. For the most part, you know he's actually yeah, it's quite amazing. By the way, it kind of reminds me of Putin, because Putin used, you know, a bit of a crude humor back in the days. Okay, but you know it's a totally different style. So him trolling the news and even European leaders, you know like with this thing about, you know Greenland and you know making Canada the 51st state.

Speaker 3: 45:56

It's just a way of trolling the public, but at the same time, you look at the actions Like he swiftly dispatched the troops to the border, he talked to the Mexican president. He really put everybody in gear to do what he says. Now, isn't that amazing? Imagine for a second that you outsource decision-making to the existing institutions. It would have taken years, right, but what he did is like okay, I want this done, this done and this done. In a matter of days. Things happen. That's like magic. You know when you were talking about Putin. Well, you don't see Putin. You know he's never done anything like it, you know. So that's what I'm just saying. Look at Trump and you see he overrides this entrenched opposition and nobody ever thought that he would be able to do that. Right, they're kind of like oh yeah, he's just trolling. Yeah, he was trolling, but when everybody was distracted, he swiftly moved in, signed some executive orders and things were done. Now my question to you have you ever seen historically anything like it?

Speaker 1: 47:01

I cannot remember even a single example of such a style.

Speaker 2: 47:06

Well, you have to look at results. So that's what I look at from a leadership perspective. He has a style, drives people crazy and he uses that, knowing that he drives people crazy, as he said, to troll them. So he does other things, but we have a border that had 10,000 people coming in a day. It's now down to 400. You know, we secured the border. We are building a strategy to go right after the cartels and they're in deep doo-doo. I mean, you can see that they're in deep doo-doo because we're isolated folks on them. We have, you know, waste and fraud and abuse.

Speaker 2: 47:37

However you say he's done this has been revealed and I think he's pulling the covers off slowly of the deep state, of course, the way he's perceived, and the large part of the population still believes he's doing all this to be more putin, like you know, and that's an interesting distinction for you saying. Yes, is he. You know putin is who putin is, is trump. Anything like him, other than he has some similar stylistic stages. What would you say to that? What is the difference between Trump and Trump?

Speaker 3: 48:04

Yeah, well, the difference is this.

Speaker 2: 48:06

It's very simple.

Speaker 3: 48:07

Hey, very simple, his team. You know, when they say like the retinue or the entourage makes the king right, his team is very articulate. It's just, it's a pleasure to watch them talk, okay, so so, every one of them. So definitely it's on the merit-based principle that you get these people to join his vision. Now, you don't see that in the authoritarian style. Much right, because it's not on the merit-based, it's on the loyalty-based, okay.

Speaker 3: 48:39

So, that's why it's two distinctly different approaches. So that's why his's two distinctly different approaches. So that's why, you know, his team helps him shine. I mean, trump's team helps him shine. Okay, so it's not like he dominates. He dominates and he shows. You know, like in authoritarian countries, you have their leaders who spend hours on television, I mean like Chavez Chavez was talking for seven hours, you know, like just crazy. So that's, I think, the very distinct difference. It's the team effort.

Speaker 2: 49:09

But it's also the team is being driven from the vision and the agenda, not from his point of view. He says here's the results I want to generate, here's the vision for our country. We're going back to America first. We're going back to we, the people. We're going back to America first. We're going back to we, the people. We're going back to the constitutional basis of taking care of the American people. That's your job. And he's got people in his team who are fully aligned to that.

Speaker 2: 49:33

I would say that our servants, they're not there for their own. They may be there for their own. You know everybody is looking to grow their persona and identity in the world. There's nothing wrong with that. They're truly there with a genuine sense of service and a sense of deep connection to the vision. So that's leadership at a high level to me. So I mean people are going to maybe hear this and turn it off because I said that, but it's just so true. I mean I compare that with the last administration where we were basically rudderless. Literally, we didn't realize we were really rudderless. You know where unelected officials were running the government. They talk about Elon, but they were talking about actual people on the Biden administration were not the president, that were acting as the president and that's come out. But anyway, I appreciate your comments on that and you know anything else you wanted to add to that?

Speaker 3: 50:23

well, I think we are living like in a very pivotal uh, uh, you know, historical, uh, moment, um and uh, there's no other leader on the face of this planet that's captivating the attention of the people. Well, let's face it right. I mean, look at european leaders, it's a gaggle of people. They have their chops, you know, they have their techniques and all that, but they cannot catalyze so many people, and especially when the actions back up the words right. So that's why I just want to really point out to that that this is a true example of leadership. Okay, so, and that's why, because you are focused, you focus on promoting leadership right, yes, Now my question for you what can we learn from his leadership and his style?

Speaker 3: 51:11

Is there a lesson for business leaders?

Speaker 2: 51:13

Absolutely Well. First of all, he speaks to the hearts of the people and I don't think people get and understand, because they have this again. Their psyches are exhausted and they believe narcissist or dictator that's what he is, because that's where I go. But he you look at his rallies and everything he speaks to people's concerns, he speaks to their pain and he says I'm going to solve it. So he has a vision for America. So he has a vision which is not crazy. And I mean we had Hakeem Jeffries.

Speaker 2: 51:45

Get on, who's the Democratic leader in Congress? Get up and say we've never seen any danger to our country like since the Civil War. And I'm going what are you talking about? And then, of course, I think the concerns there are different. We will go into that, but the idea is that he is speaking to the hearts of what we all care about. He's bringing us back home to our roots. So that's number one. Number two he's built a great team. I don't care what you say Tulsi Gabbard, you know. Pan Bodhi, what you say, what you don't, but Kash Patel, these are all, as you say, articulate servant leaders that are super smart and super competent. And he has orchestrated this by delivering the message. You're the Defense Department. All we want is a top-rate warrior culture where they care deeply about our country, and they're there.

Speaker 2: 52:36

And what we've also noticed is, since Trump has been in office, enlistments in the military have skyrocketed. They're making up for lost time. Everybody couldn't get anybody to enroll in the military during the Biden administration. It was really a hard time. That has totally changed, so it has ignited something in all of us to some different degrees. So I see that and ultimately he's delivering on his promises. So say what you will about his integrity, but there's nobody. I've never seen, in both his terms, anybody in such a short period of time. What politician does that? And so he then galvanizes trust more and those that voted for him Because you're doing what you said you do. So I mean, that's what I would say.

Speaker 3: 53:20

Let me just make one point here. What you're describing is very important because leaders are judged by how closely they reflect the reality, and he is not detached from the reality Because look at other leaders they create their own bubble and they live in that reality. They create because they're comfortable with it and I find it incredibly compelling that you know, in Trump's case, he is so connected with the reality that's going on on the ground Because you know you look at other leaders they live in the wrong realm. They create their media reality. You know it's about time to really like sing praise to me. So let's spend a week so that the media can sing praise and glorify my name. I mean, yeah, you see that it's crazy, pathetic. So that's why I mean, I don't know how he manages to stay in touch with what's going on on the ground. I hope one day books will be written on this topic, but I think that would be like really groundbreaking to know that.

Speaker 2: 54:24

Well, good, I appreciate this conversation. I want to transition into another territory, which is juxtaposition of war. Maybe I'll challenge you now this conversation, but it's an important one, I think, and that is the emerging opportunities as the Russian-Ukrainian at least Russian-American relations stall Now. You have worked extensively with Western corporations, share a little bit of how you've helped American businesses bridge that cultural divide and we're going to talk a little bit about the opportunities that you might see happening and unfolding in Russia for American business. But I'm curious what is your background in helping build that bridge of that cultural divide for businesses and for eternity, business in Iraq.

Speaker 3: 55:05

Yeah Well, you know, remember when I was talking about when I quit the army. I was quickly picked up by Amoco in 1991. And basically that was my first encounter with American engineers and people who were coming over to see if there are any opportunities, kind of like, you know, do a bit of a reconnaissance. And then I realized that Russians and Americans have a lot more in common than with Europeans, because people are more practical. Ok, they ask very specific questions. There's no, you know, overriding like our culture beats your culture right. So I was pleasantly surprised by that. But then, at the same time, unlike, say, europeans, americans were more keenly interested in learning what it takes to become successful. If I need to understand how the cookie crumbles here, I want to know it. If you're saying that I need to be culturally sensitive to these things, okay, I'll try to learn that. So there was always more appetite. And I just want to give you one example. You know, when the country manager for Amoco, keith Zimmerman, was there, you know. So we spent a lot of time, you know, talking about the divide between politics and culture and the post-Soviet mentality and things like that. So he found the time to learn that. So now, like 30 years back, he is a co-founder of the non-profit that we are running with, like you know, collaborative Evolution, focusing on promoting of higher consciousness. Okay, and we always go back to those days. And he told me one thing you taught me a good lesson about the importance of building diverse and cross-cultural teams, because when I, after Russia, my stint in Russia, I went to work in Latin America and I was piecing together my competent team in Ecuador, I was very sensitive to that. How do you deploy the cross-cultural knowledge to identify those nuggets, those people with the right skill sets that you really want to have them on your team? Okay, so that was like my experience back then. And then you know 25 years that I spent with Emiko BP, you know, and really helping people learn the culture, the history, politics, language, anything that will help to become competitive and successful.

Speaker 3: 57:33

I think now we're I guess we're getting to a point that this could become again an opportunity, because think about this, with the way this whole thing was going on, with all the international companies pulling out of Russia, okay, with all that divide having been created, that European countries have to look elsewhere where to go for investment companies to come back in and do business and there's no competition because European companies were disheartened and dissuaded from doing business with Russia. And, of course, russia is really looking for a way to recover from the sanctions. Now you may say, okay, it's a different situation. We have to put politics first. Yeah, but if we put politics first, nobody can benefit from this.

Speaker 3: 58:23

So Trump is making it very clear right, this is your opportunity. Okay, you guys, if you haven't been able to look for peace after three years now, when Europe wants to get a seat at the table, but you guys are still promoting the war, okay, you want to promote that? Well, how about you sink your own money in your military budgets? Because right now I mean the way I see it like the US have been sponsoring you for the most part.

Speaker 2: 58:49

Okay, so how about you start taking care of that?

Speaker 3: 58:52

So that's a good example.

Speaker 2: 58:54

Well and on a practical level, if this thawing is beginning to happen. So I would imagine there are certain business leaders that are taking notice right, and so, if you were, you know some practical advice for an American business executive who is thinking about re-engaging. What do they need to consider? Now? Some of these may be more or less experienced in doing business in Russia, so this may be elementary to them. What do they need to consider to re-engage in this opportunity that is emerging?

Speaker 3: 59:22

Okay, so first off, basically, you know I remember when everybody complained, especially in the business circles, how it is difficult to really get any practical solutions. And you know, deal with the bureaucracy. Okay, this is interesting. Now we have a situation when Trump can get Putin to play along with him, like, keep up with me, vlad, because if you want to do business and help your business.

Speaker 3: 59:48

I am helping my business, right. So you have to sharpen your saw, because this is what we can do. And this is again. Now it's becoming a personal competition. You know, trump is older than Putin, right? And he could say like okay, vlad, chop, chop, chop. If you really want to do something right, you have to demonstrate that you have the goodwill and you have something behind to see that we can actually make it work. Okay, so now we see the competition between leaders. Forget about institutions, forget about councils, organizations, what have you? Just focus on personal leadership.

Speaker 3: 1:00:26

And I think, business people. They will actually notice that difference, because I remember back then, in early 2000, you know, only banks, american banks, were saying like oh, okay, something happens. You know they will. Choppers will come and you know, save us, right, we're taken care of and the US government is looking after us. There's no such thing, guys, that you were thinking that the US government will save you. The US government will save you. The US government never really cared, including the embassy at the time. They were not looking after the business interests ever. And now remember that.

Speaker 3: 1:01:05

Okay, there was some sort of a delusion that. Well, you know, look, let's put it this way, I'll just give you a practical example. One country that has been pretty successful in Russia and suffered as a result of all of this is Finland. Because the Finns had the combination of good skills, practicality. They moved in and they were the only country in Europe that put their diplomatic influence behind their businesses. They would always have. I mean, can you imagine the embassy answering the phone when businesses called? But now what did they get? Now they're NATO right Now, because of hostilities. The fence cannot go back in like they used to. They lost so much. Maybe another decade, maybe two Now Americans because, okay, yes, they supplied the weaponry, but they sat across the pond and Trump can say look, we lived in the dark because of the dams.

Speaker 2: 1:01:55

Okay, now he said he would, he would never go on. This war would have never happened with him.

Speaker 2: 1:02:00

So he's, he's kind of given him a clean slate to say I'm a new sheriff in town and I want to extend my hand to you and say let's do business and let's put this silliness behind us, because, after all, it's impractical to stay mad at each other and to to be suspicious of the other. We have to be careful of our adversaries, all that. But this is an opportunity, vlad. This is an opportunity. And so for business leaders, what you're saying is one of the things they will provide if the slate gets somewhat clean and they can step in is by them actually showing up as leaders in a practical way to be of assistance.

Speaker 2: 1:02:36

How can we help in your? So opportunities would exist. What are ways in which? What are opportunities you see in Russia that business leaders could be taking advantage of now, given that framing Either sectors or parts of the country or where there could be assistance, where there's, because we, as businesses, we're looking for where can we solve a pain, and if we can solve that pain and the other side believes we can solve that pain, there will be an exchange of capital for that. So where do you see the opportunities in Russia now for American businesses?

Speaker 3: 1:03:11

Well, it's everywhere across the board. Because, imagine this, like I said, you know, because any sanctions that usually cripple the economic activity, even though the Russian economy rebounded and demonstrated some resilience, that was recognized right, but still, you know, because now it's an opportunity that actually American companies can benefit from those sanctions. Okay, guys, we create a lot of scarcity here, that's weird, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 1:03:39

No, no, but think about this.

Speaker 3: 1:03:41

This is like, if you're a business person, right, okay, that scarcity was created for political reasons, right, but we are here to fill in the void, right, we can drown you in goods because Russia is a very rich country in, you know, mineral, okay. Okay, not only minerals, right, but natural resources across the board, right. So, technically, you just have to show up and do the business. What I like about this human component here imagine Trump, you know, appoints a commerce guy, you know, like a lawyer or whoever just the face of the investment, potential investment.

Speaker 3: 1:04:21

So this guy says look, there's only one person between you guys, russians, and me, it's Trump. So you talk to me, right, and Trump will know all of that. Russians will show up 5,000 people, okay, 5,000 talking to one person. So this guy would probably say like, okay, guys, you need to decide among yourselves, okay, who is the guy who calls the shots, so I can talk to him and we'll make it happen. So you see, this style that Trump embodies will invariably reflect it on the Russian side as well, which probably will bring a lot of change. You know, if it doesn't happen through politics, it will happen through the pocket. Like you said, the pain, right. So let's use the economy to make it happen then.

Speaker 2: 1:05:05

So let's get this down to tactics. Obviously we have to wait for this to play out and see how the relationship is going to form and where those avenues of connection are. If you saw, if a business leader has kind of woken up and said I just didn't realize or I knew this was the case. But now I'm more interested what are the first one or two steps an executive, business executive, can take to begin to formulate a strategy to move opportunities, move towards opportunities in Russia? What would be the first one or two steps you'd recommend they make?

Speaker 3: 1:05:34

Yeah, the first step is very simple you allow this to organically evolve, so you allow business leaders to self-organize, so it's a self-arising force that will basically self-organize and tell Trump okay, we're ready to invest. Right, if you're going to be looking after our interests and create politically viable and economic conditions for us to invest and you will be watching our backs, we're ready to go in. Okay, it's very simple, right? Of course, anybody who's dealing with that, once you indicate your intention the only thing that needs to be mirrored by the Russian side who will say, like okay, we are ready to create conditions that you guys need for you to come in and do this. Right, because this whole nonsense about dangling the resources using political games, you know, to cripple businesses and especially investment these days, are gone because we live in a different economic reality now, okay, plus globalization kind of fizzled out, because now we live in a multipolar world, right?

Speaker 3: 1:06:36

Okay, everybody's aware of China. What do you do? Everybody was saying Russia was in China's pocket. Well, it turns out it's not the case. Then what do we do with Russia? Okay, europe cannot play with Russia because they are backing up Ukraine in the war.

Speaker 2: 1:06:53

So maybe the US is the only option left. This is a huge opportunity for American business, as soon as you're seeing it.

Speaker 2: 1:06:58

Yes, yes indeed, and the first step you say is figure out a way to engage the Trump administration, either through the US Department of Commerce or do some liaison directly, to begin to have dialogue. Obviously, I would imagine Trump will be creating I would know him, he'll be creating avenues for that dialogue to happen to happen. So you have to be tuned in to what's happening in the administration and where you can gain access to understand okay, how do we play this game, what are we going to do? How do we enter? Who do we have to talk to? How do we build alignment in Russia? So being part of those conversations would be a key thing for business leaders right now and anything else. You'd add to that any other steps?

Speaker 3: 1:07:40

Yeah, I think what's really important, because you remove from the table you know those like constant, you know points of consternation, like politics, historical differences, you know whatever, all this nonsense, right, that created a lot of noise. You just say, look, okay, even legal side, okay, guys, we have the intention, right, you just have to clarify your intent and that will put the legal behind it, because the political will is there, and that's something that nobody wants to talk about. Well, there's no such thing as political will, there's no such thing as a political leader. That has always been the democratic noise. Right, put your trust in our institutions. Okay, we are the wise, we know what we're doing, we are mature ideologically. We will help you navigate that complexity. Well, technically, that's how you get everybody to drown, okay, but you remove all that and you say, okay, there's a political will, everything else is secondary. Okay, everything else is secondary.

Speaker 3: 1:08:41

Legal sides and all of that, because you know, you know it's very simple you want to screw this up, you screw it up once and this opportunity is gone, okay. So do you think that for somebody like Vlad, who will look at this like okay, it's my only chance to pull myself out of the quagmire right and kind of make myself relevant? Do I want to, like, really shoot myself in the foot? Well, I'll have to shape up a bit.

Speaker 2: 1:09:04

Well, in a certain way, doesn't it? In my conversations about him before, you've always said this isn't a guy that wants to conquer Europe, he wants to be relevant in Europe and he wanted to join the European Union. He wanted to be part of Europe. They shunned him. So this is an opportunity for him to kind of recapture some of that for himself, is it not? It's an opportunity for him to be relevant in the world global business environment, for example, and not the greatest human being that there is. That he is, he's still. He's not somebody that wants to rule over vast countryside. He wants to be relevant and wants Russia to be relevant. Well, I appreciate that conversation. I think that will help a lot of people spark some ideas within their businesses and their organizations about starting to have this conversation, which is always the first step, and then figuring out how to connect and start taking those steps. So I want to close out this show with a like we're going to take a right turn here. So I want to close out this show with like we're going to take a right turn here.

Speaker 2: 1:09:55

This goes back to something you were talking about, about the project you're working at Conscious Enterprise Network, the Peace Initiative. But you've been a longtime advocate for. I'll just call it conscious leadership or authentic, courageous leadership or servant leadership, however you frame it, leadership at the highest order, some of which we said we were seeing demonstrated through Trump. But if world leaders embrace the higher consciousness and embrace that kind of leadership, how is that a solution for improving a relationship between countries and including not having conflicts like we saw in Russia and Ukraine? It seems like the page is. We have an opportunity here that things could be turning in a direction. We're seeing that in the elections in Europe, but those they're changing. People have had it over there too, and they're throwing the left out as well. What do you see as that impact of that on improving the world?

Speaker 3: 1:10:47

Okay, you asked a very interesting question. Because of this whole turn to the right in the world, right, is there any space or room for higher consciousness kind of like leaders? Technically speaking, it's the only opportunity now, why? Because anything that's left winning, it's the ideology that takes up all the breathing space in the room, right? So you drink my Kool-Aid and think like me and act like me. You, you know, that's the only way if you really want to get anything done now. Never mind corruption, by the way, because this is just, like you know, the, the prime directive, right lining pockets using the ideological, you know, narrative.

Speaker 3: 1:11:29

Now, the whole swing to the right indicates that people are tired of this. Okay, people are tired of this and they want to move forward, and that creates like a breathing space, and that's where the emerging higher consciousness leaders can step in, because you combine two things Actions, action-oriented approach, okay, demonstrating a new type of a leader who is a truly conscious leader, not in the sense of, like the left converted the word conscious as being kind of nearly woke, right? Well, we're talking about a quality of a leader, of being of a higher consciousness, right, but that's a different story, because this whole machinery of you know coaching and everything they kept creating this more empathy. You know, demonstrate EQ.

Speaker 3: 1:12:23

Blah, blah blah, keep raising the bar. The trick with that was with the level, with the state of a psyche that our leaders had. They can't get there without a major upgrade so you see, it's interesting.

Speaker 3: 1:12:36

Over time it just created this the high bar of expectations and physical inability to meet that standard. Okay, so I think now, with a new practical turn that frees up a lot of leaders who were gaslighted, who were bullied and canceled, they can step forth to be emboldened and say okay, I want to create a new world, but I need some new novel, thinking away from all this nonsense and, I think, this solution. I cannot think of too many people who can talk about this new vision, putting higher consciousness first. How it's done? What do you get as a result? So you, as the, you're the only executive coach who, early on, you sensed that one day there would be a demand for the truly authentic leaders, not just like the ones who use a lot of blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2: 1:13:35

I was way ahead of the curve, years ahead of the curve. I think the time has come Finally. My senses were right on, and sometimes that's unfolding a vision. We've navigated complex geopolitical dynamics, explored the power of influence and brainwashing, and unpacked the hidden layers of the Russia-Ukraine conflict. We've looked at Trump's leadership and the evolving US-Russia relationship and how business leaders can seize emerging opportunities, and ultimately, we reflected on how conscious leadership can drive positive transformation at a global scale. Now, why does this matter? Because understanding these forces isn't just about politics or economics. It's about creating a safer, more united and more prosperous world for everyone. It's about helping leaders like you make informed, ethical decisions that shape the future, because it's through high-quality leadership that we can create such a world.

Speaker 2: 1:14:28

Now to our listeners. If today's show brought you value, please consider subscribing to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you found the conversation enlightening, please share it with your colleagues, friends or on social media, because the more we broaden these conversations, the more we can collectively elevate leadership and consciousness Further. If you're exploring opportunities in the Russian market and want expert guidance, anatoly can help you develop a strategic approach to doing business in Russia. Feel free to reach out to me. If that's of interest, I'd be happy to arrange a free consultation with him. Discuss how he can support your business success. Finally, as we close this show, remember, as a leader, the most important tool you have is your ability to challenge your thinking, see more clearly and expand your possibilities. That's how real transformation happens. Until next time, this is David Craig, the Leadership Alchemist, signing off. Stay bold, stay curious and keep leading with heart and vision.