Speaker 1: 0:11

Welcome to Unfazed Under Fire, a podcast designed to elevate your leadership and amplify your impact. Each episode offers valuable insights to help you transform your vision into reality, cultivate high-performing cultures that attract top talents, and navigate the complexities of today's uncertain, chaotic world with confidence and clarity. Now tuning into your needs, here's your host and moderator, seasoned executive coach and leadership alchemist, david Craig Utz.

Speaker 2: 0:46

Pressure in the executive suite is relentless. The game is changing and most executive leaders are having a hard time keeping up or aren't ready for what's coming next. C-suite turnover is at record highs. Executives are burning out and many are questioning whether the stress, the sacrifice and the ever-rising expectations are even worth being in the role. The sacrifice and the ever-rising expectations are even worth being in the role, but here's the real challenge. The world is in slowing downs, markets are shifting, industries are being redefined overnight and leadership itself is being tested in ways we've never seen before. So the real question is are leaders evolving fast enough to keep up? Welcome to Unfazed Under Fire, where we strip away the noise and tackle the brutal realities executives are facing today. No fluff, no recycled leadership cliches, just practical, game-changing insights that leaders can use right now to expand their influence, sharpen their decision-making and thrive under the pressure they're dealing with today.

Speaker 2: 1:39

Now, with the format shift I'm making in the program, I'm pleased to be joined by two incredible co-hosts who are going to be bringing their unique perspectives to our conversations and are my co-pilots in the new show's format. Ryan McShane is a leader in human resources governance and cultural transformation, helping organizations building high-performing, human-centered cultures driven by conscious leadership, and Atoli is an expert in ethics, compliance and leadership transformation, with a rare and proven ability to rapidly expand human consciousness and leadership. Anatoly is an expert in ethics, compliance and leadership transformation, with a rare and proven ability to rapidly expand human consciousness and leadership, directly impacting executives' performance in ways no one else can. Now this is not business as usual. This is about helping executive leaders make the fundamental and necessary shift in how they think, operate and lead. Also, we'll be discussing the leadership development profession and how it must evolve to meet executives' needs by bringing solutions that help leaders transform fast, efficiently and sustainably. So with that, I want to welcome Anatoly and Ryan to the show. Great to see you all here today.

Speaker 3: 2:39

Thanks for having me, David.

Speaker 4: 2:41

Yeah, thanks for having me too.

Speaker 2: 2:43

Yeah, david. So let's get into it. I want to start by exploring how executives are really dealing with the current climate that I just summarized. As I noted, executives are navigating this unbelievable volatility, constant disruption, and they're under much more pressure than they have been, and by now, that's kind of stating the obvious. I don't think we have to say that over and over again. We have not paid a lot of attention to how the emerging crisis has impacted them personally, and I want to spend a little time on that today, and let's talk about that. What's the impact on the human being and their effectiveness under these pressures that are rising? I mean, what do you guys think?

Speaker 3: 3:24

You know, I would describe it like this, david, it's not your father's Oldsmobile. Do you remember those commercials in?

Speaker 3: 3:32

the what era was that? Late 90s probably, where they kept advertising Oldsmobiles, you know, and that they're no longer. You know, this old mechanized machine that your father grew up in, very mundane, that they were trying to popularize them and they're better, faster, more technologically equipped and things of that nature. So that was their tagline this is not your father's Oldsmobile. I think that can be attributed to where we are with leadership. I think that can be attributed to where we are with leadership. You know, we've gone through some trends in the last 20 years where you start to hear being 75% of millennials, we now have Gen Xers and millennials at the helm of many of these organizations, and so, with training being a luxury we can no longer afford, we've got a new shift in demographics and leadership.

Speaker 3: 4:40

We have a lot of people who can't pour from an empty cup, if you will. They've never been taught to be great leaders, they've only watched what happens before them, and I think we all recognize that old school ways of leading are no longer in alignment with our population being led, and so the old command and control do what I tell you because I'm your boss does not resonate with the younger generation, and so, consequently, you see things like the mass resignation that I know you and I talked about before, david, where cultures are really struggling morale's, struggling motivation and you just have a high turnover environment. Because of this, millennials come in and hear, oh, it's command and control, no thanks, I'm out of here. They really want a servant-led model and this is not something that a lot of leaders have been taught, or coaching, for that matter, and having that coaching approach. So I think that millennials are longing for a different environment and I think leaders are slow to really catch up in that regard and I think you couple that.

Speaker 2: 5:45

Yeah, go ahead. There's implications to what executives are dealing with. But I'm wondering the people themselves are sitting in the seat are dealing with something. What are the challenges that an executive is facing? I mean, I know you, Anatoly, you have some thoughts on that. You worked in BP for 25 years, I think it was, and you've seen what they deal with. How do you compare what executives are dealing with today and what is the impact that this is having on them from a neuroscience standpoint? We don't have to get too fancy, but what is actually happening in the nervous system? In the nervous system, and how is this impacting their ability to build cultures and to support the people that are coming in the organization?

Speaker 4: 6:29

pointing to what Ryan just said, Well, let's start with what I'm more familiar with what executives dealt with, let's say, less than 10 years ago, because it was more like this interpersonal feud fighting over the turf siloed organizations, limited mindset. But these days we're dealing with a totally different animal, because any executive and his role right now has got a lot more added to their plate, like technological challenges. Okay, technological challenges, okay. Automation here and there, ai over there, and stuff affecting not only them but their workforce, and they don't know what to do. Do I fire people because they found some good and snazzy AI solution so I can let the entire department go, or do I do this?

Speaker 4: 7:20

And then you know the second thing, which is like really interesting they are being completely inundated with the level of information coming in from all dashboards edge-generated data-driven and all that. You can't cope with that. Introducing PPM planning, performance management people were already rolling their eyes like, oh, you're going to be using some data, some dashboard analytics, but it's stone age compared with what executives are doing today. Okay, but what's really interesting, it's the sheer volume of the informational overload. How much of that is happening? Why? It's not just the amount of information that goes through their brain, it's not knowing what's quality, what's not, what's relevant, what's not, what's lies and what's like miscalculation and all that.

Speaker 4: 8:20

So I think that's what's really driving people over the edge, because they don't know. I mean, can I trust my people to do the job or they're too dumb compared with the challenges I have? Do I fire everybody and I'll be doing all my job myself? I'll get old ranking all the sellers, but I don't care about money anymore. I'm so overworked because of burnout I don't care right, so I'm prepared to crush and burn. Whatever happens happens. So this is, I think it's a very interesting moment that everybody has reached. Everybody has its own breaking point, but these people right now, because they have to be available to their teams 24 by 7, just because by sheer digital connectivity, it's a lot. It's a lot to take and you know human fabric is pretty fragile right now and for executives they could have a brain of an Einstein. It won't help you, because you have been inundated with so much screaming for your attention that you know you can go postal any moment. So that explains it.

Speaker 2: 9:21

So that explains it Well. I mean, I think it also is what you're pointing to is that you know, for people the executives may be listening out there the recognition is, we've tried to keep up with the intellect right, and the intellect is a powerful force. But what's happening when we're trying to keep what's occurring in the human being, when we're trying to keep up intellectually? First of all, as you say, we have to filter what information is true and what information is not. Not only that, our entire employee population is dealing with that as well, and we're now managing people that are overwhelmed, and maybe there's a bit of divisiveness in our organization, depending on your political persuasion too. There's things like that that are going on, and I'm just curious what is really being affected in the executive that's causing them to feel like it's not worth it? Or can I really decipher what is occurring in the human being when that's happening? The system is getting overwhelmed, right? So any thoughts on that?

Speaker 3: 10:23

David, I'll give you the Psych 101 kind of perspective on this and then I'm sure Anatoly will take it much deeper from that standpoint. But you use the term overwhelm and you remember from good old Psych 101 classes Maslow's hierarchy of needs and what is the bottom rung or layer is survival. And when people are overwhelmed, rung or layer is survival. And when people are overwhelmed, that's the layer that they're relegated to is just surviving.

Speaker 3: 10:49

And when you're in survival mode that's akin to being triggered to fight, flight or freeze, and in that moment it's called amygdala hijack. You are just equipped to fight, fight or flee based on the experience that your brain is telling you what is going on around you. And that's that overwhelm, that's that sheer complexity and you're just trying to get through the end of the day. As a result of that. That's no place to be from a biochemical standpoint to constantly be on alert to fight, flight or freeze. So what's happening in that moment is you're not processing things from a higher cognitive level, you're not able to solve problems, you're not able to create, you're not able to develop relationships, and all of those things are very crucial for any kind of leader out there. So that's the way I view it. I'm sure Anatoly will take it a little bit deeper.

Speaker 4: 11:43

Oh, no, no, this is brilliant. This is brilliant observation, definitely because it annihilates the state of fight and flight. What do executives do with that state? Okay, well, you can fake it until you make it like fake, like you're still in control. I still have the title right, I can still boss my people around.

Speaker 2: 12:03

It won't amount to much. People are expecting.

Speaker 4: 12:06

Yeah, but you know. But hey, because bosses are not the only species overwhelmed, everybody, down and throughout the organization, including the chief janitor, everybody is overwhelmed. Right, it's just like too much to deal with. So my question here is more like about this Okay, how much and how much further can you push a human being before they fly off the handle?

Speaker 4: 12:34

Because what people do basically what you do when you're really groaning under the pressure of the informational overload. What you do, just dig in. I'll just do as much as I can. I want to share with you one thing it's normally not talked about. When they talk about the Japanese work culture, they say sometimes like oh, so-and-so died from karoshi, you know, from death resulting, like, from his overworking right, extra hours. Well, to tell you the truth, from his overworking right, extra hours. Well, to tell you the truth, if you look at the Japanese culture, they work in very incremental steps, so they don't really get burned out. They kind of push their workload around as long as they can stay focused. So this is a different nature of stress. It's just a physical exertion If you, you know, work for three, four days without any sleep and then you just, basically, you know, drop dead. But what we are talking about more like in the west, it's just like, okay, well, geopolitically there are. So there's so much going on.

Speaker 4: 13:35

I don't know which direction I should be taking my company. Should I be moving to china? Should be moving them from china to the states? Should I be like fighting my european competitors? It should be moving them from China to the States. Should I be fighting my European competitors? It should be moving maybe to Congo, because in Congo real estate is much cheaper and the workforce is a bit more affordable. I mean, no, think about that. All these decisions lead to one thing. Each and every one in the C-suite they think okay, I'll sign a contract, I'll last for a year and I'll get out before my contract expires, or just right when it expires, Because you don't want to be caught in the middle with all the unaddressed challenges, because it's just like way beyond my pay grade to deal with that. So I think that people are playing musical chairs.

Speaker 4: 14:23

So that's why the turnover of C-suite dwellers is so high Because people just understand, like you know, if I'm lucky to clinch a deal and last in the job for a couple of years, I certainly don't want to be caught up. You know, in that when they start like really you know, doing the review of my work-related activities.

Speaker 2: 14:47

Yeah, it's pretty stunning too, because, I mean, over 1,500 CEOs exited the organization in 2023, and 39% year after year now over the last several years. That's tremendous turnover and that's just showing you that this is really hitting. And I was at a leadership development conference recently and the top topic was resilience, and we'll talk about this a little later. But I think our profession, my profession of leadership development, is having a hard time addressing it. They would not make me admit that, given the conversation that happened in the room. That's true. So I mean, I want to talk a little bit about, obviously, is there anything else you want to share about? You know, when somebody's in survival mode at that level and they're faking it till they make it and nobody's really talking about it and addressing the solutions, bringing real solutions to help them, what does that do for performance? How does that impact performance? I mean, it seems like it's kind of a wet blanket, I would think.

Speaker 3: 15:46

Yeah, well, I think that everyone looks to the leader to set the tone of the organization and you know, culturally speaking, that's exactly what happens.

Speaker 3: 15:56

You go into one environment. What's acceptable in that environment is, you know, different from another environment, depending on the leader at the helm, because they call the tune, so to speak. So people look to that leader to say you know what's working, what's not working, what's okay, what's not okay. And if that leader is looking stressed out and overwhelmed, well you better bet the rest of the employees are going to feel that and sense that across the entire organization. So I think that that's going to be reflective of the environment and something that we have to think about and to kind of put a fine point on this, I think all of these trends that we're discussing this morning reflect a broader need for recalibration of corporate leadership in today's volatile world. I think that we have an opportunity to offer solutions related to that volatility. And how do we manage that in a way that we can maintain ourselves and our own well-being as well as that of the well-being of the organization.

Speaker 2: 16:57

Yeah Well, let's put an exclamation point on this. You started talking about that earlier, ryan, when you were talking about the impact on millennials coming in and what they're looking for. So now you have a rising expectation from a new generation coming into an organization at a time where, quite frankly, I have a lot of compassion for this transition. Executives are in right now. They are in the crosshairs. There has to be many out there who realize I have to change, or this ain't working and I don't know how to change. Have to change, or this ain't working and I don't know how to change. Right, but what are the implications? To further extrapolate from what you were talking about, ryan, on the organization and you started pointing to it? Here I am and I think everybody understands the value of leadership. Right, it inspires people, it creates clarity, direction, it generates commitments that forward what's really most important to the organization and obviously it gets results, and there's a mixed bag. Results seem to still be okay. What is the actual implications for leaders that are dealing with this on their organizations?

Speaker 3: 17:59

Wow, you know I think it's a perfect storm right now. You think about this from the standpoint of all these external influences that shape. You know what we're doing internally that's a big part of it but you know the modality of how we lead and how we motivate. You know it comes down to three things people, processes and systems. And when we recognize that people drive those processes and systems, we have to be more people-centered and people-predicated. Once worked for the population no longer works with a different population, so we're going to have to adjust our styles and that's something that we have to really recognize. And you couple that with the fact that the psychological condition of being overwhelmed what happens typically we don't become more gregarious, more compassionate, more empathetic.

Speaker 3: 18:47

In fact it's quite the opposite. We double down and get a little more hard-nosed, we become a little more commanding. And so when you have leaders that become more commanding because of the stress that they're under, that actually does the opposite effect and it drives people to head for the door. They don't want to be in that kind of environment where they're constantly stressed and overwhelmed as well. So the leader has to kind of take the hits, so to speak. That's why, you know, we always say that they get paid the big money because they make the hard decisions.

Speaker 3: 19:17

But they also have to walk the talk and be able to represent the organization in a calm, strategic manner. To represent the organization in a calm, strategic manner, indicating to the staff that they know what they're doing and they're going to hold them safe and secure and still have viable employment for them at the end of the day or week or month or year or whatever we're looking at. So again, I think it's a perfect storm and we have to make some changes and some shifts. You know, like I said, this is not your father's Oldsmobile, the same. You know, what got you here won't get you there, and we are on the precipice of that and we need to start making a sea change in terms of our philosophy, in terms of our approach to leadership and how we execute that through people Going back to the individual executives that may be listening out there.

Speaker 2: 20:03

You know the effect on decision-making and execution, which is their primary job. When leaders are kind of running around empty in this survival mechanism, judgment suffers. I mean until this is where you have like expertise. That is beyond. What I want to articulate here is like in the nervous system when this stress and burnout is impacting what's actually happening to the cognitive abilities of an individual and even though they may be on the outside looking like they still have their act together. What's actually happening to the cognitive abilities of an individual and even though they may be on the outside looking like they still have their act together. What's occurring inside that is detrimental to them and their organizations?

Speaker 4: 20:40

Well, you know, just to keep it simple, you know people experience this kind of like all systems shut down, because your perception it's almost like this borderline state before you get to the burnout stage when you need like another half a year to recover from that.

Speaker 4: 20:57

And sometimes people who take sabbatical or they just, like you know, take some time off, you know they may not even get back to those jobs they used to be in, right, so but this whole the whole perception, you know, of anything that's happening around you, it's like all systems, kind of like gradually shut down to prevent you from overheating. And people usually experience that on a different level. But they know that something is wrong. So that's why people start frantically making decisions, calling in sick, taking vacations. You know, calling in sick, taking vacations, doing stuff like that just to kind of like offset the imminent degradation of the biological state they're in. You know people sometimes, you know they're not really familiar with the way their nervous system works, right, exactly that's what I need like to become a bit of like an adrenaline junkie, you know, jump off the plane to, to, to reboot my system or just go on a binge, you know, for a couple of days to cool myself. People start, like you know, making crazy decisions because they're just like I mean the whole thing of becoming self-medicating.

Speaker 2: 22:10

Your nervous system is crying out for help and the only thing you know is a couple of bourbons right or next day. You're a little sleepy, so the only thing you know is it takes some modafinil or something like that to get you going. That's one way of doing it. There's other ways of doing it. Some people might double down and try to learn to meditate. That's a more healthier way. But then that goes out the window, probably because that hour, 20 minutes, their emails are calling them.

Speaker 2: 22:39

There's this sense of when I engage with people that are looking to hire me as a coach. These are the kinds of like they're trying to figure out. How do I slow down but not lose time? How do I recuperate and still get my stuff done with everything that's coming at me? And the more that begins to happen, that adds to the stress, because we know we have to do something. We don't know what to do. We might listen to a podcast, get an idea of some practice, mindfulness practice to do. We try that. That goes out the window and all of a sudden again we're engaging, the very thing that's being overwhelmed our intellect. We're trying to figure it out. On top of everything else, we're looking for a solution that is hard to find in a podcast or a book, or even talking to your coach or whatever. Sometimes it can be challenging.

Speaker 3: 23:30

The question I think of David is and everything that we're describing is a phenomenon called escapism what can I do to take myself out of the current state of being that I I'm feeling right now, because it's too much for me to endure? So, like you said, you know we do the things that help us escape whether it's adrenaline, whether it's you, whether it's caffeine or drugs or whatever it is when, in fact, I think that this requires us to step back, because we're still trying to apply old models to a new problem, and I think that that's where we come in in terms of offering a new solution to the current day's problems.

Speaker 2: 24:14

Well, we've known for years. This has been challenging because the murmurs of a leadership crisis have been bubbling up for the last 10 years, but this feels like more of on the edge of or in the middle of, and we haven't identified it as a crisis. Would you consider entering into a crisis mode with organizations and how they're led and built and sustained?

Speaker 3: 24:34

I honestly believe we've been in a leadership crisis for the last 10, 15 years, if not longer.

Speaker 2: 24:38

And I want to speak also to maybe some of the business leaders that are out there and say everything seems fine, and it may be for them. I'm not saying that everybody's having fire drills in their organizations. There are well-run organizations, maybe fewer and far between when people are okay when they come to work and executives aren't feeling this. But what would you say to executives out there that are saying, well, everything seems fine on my end? I'm not really getting this. Is there anything you'd say about what they might be able to look at or take a pulse of to test that assumption?

Speaker 3: 25:16

I think an astute leader is going to understand what's happening with their staff, and so just the fact that they may not be consciously aware of what's happening around them, and I think that there's a tendency to also bury our heads when things get too complex.

Speaker 3: 25:26

So they may consciously choose not to recognize everything that's falling apart around them. You know it reminds me of that old meme. You know that you see on the internet the guy the dog is sitting there in a fire room. You know flames everywhere and the dog's sitting there going I'm fine, this is fine, everything's fine, right. So I think we have to, you know, really recognize that for what it is. But if a leader wants to really see what's happening, they need to check in with their employees too. How are they feeling, what are the effects that are going through them right now and being able to touch base with them and check in with them and see if they're doing okay and how they're operating? Are they operating at that self-actualized level, going back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, or are they also feeling that survival mode? And I think all too often we know it's the latter, that they're in survival mode as well, whether or not the leader recognizes that's the experience that they're going through too, or not.

Speaker 2: 26:27

Yeah, and this is a good place to transition to this. I think, if you ask a CEO and if you do a look at surveys, at the top of that is that CEOs have is we need to develop stronger leadership in the organization, and they intuit, they understand not only the value of the organization's being loved well and results being done, but they want people that are resilient and able to keep up with what's going on effectively, first of all, so they're not bothered by their stress because they're under stress, and secondly, they want the support. So I will say that the leadership development and realization development fields have done a great job I would say up to prior to 2020, raising awareness and providing principles and frameworks, and we have all these leadership competency models that have defined leadership really well, and some of the tools and mechanisms provide an avenue to form new habits through rigorous practice. But here's the problem the challenges of today that we have are outpaced some of these approaches because leaders have little time to do what's necessary to generate those new habits, and research actually says trying to change habits without an upgraded perception is akin to kind of throwing seeds on concrete. We've avoided this issue and we've talked about self-awareness for years. But if we don't shift the perception, it doesn't see the value of changing the habits. So we don't do what we have to to change the habits because the perception is still outdated. Right, and it's the transforming of these perception shifts that's the most challenging thing. And I have to also remember that leadership trainers and coaches are also dealing with what we've all dealt with since 2020, right, they're not immune to the changes.

Speaker 2: 28:16

They may not have the same pressures if they're a sole practitioner or a small leadership development company, but I've seen that most of what's been happening coming out from the leadership development is repackaged prior to 2020. So how do we change this issue? On self-awareness, to talk about resilience? So it's the same program. Repackage it, because that's what they're asking for. So now we're looking at what are they asking for and I'm not trying to throw people under the bus. I think we're all trying to stay in business and really be helpful. So this is not in any way a judgment on that, but according to McKinsey's research, it's not meeting the grade for executives. 75% are reporting that leadership programs don't deliver the results they need and, at the same time, they don't know what else to invest in. So they're continuing to invest. But right from your perspective. I'm curious. Working with leaders, why do you think many executives might feel that the programs aren't moving the cheese? Do you have any thoughts on that? Just curious.

Speaker 3: 29:09

Yeah, I think that you kind of touched on it.

Speaker 3: 29:11

Related to the perspectives and the habits.

Speaker 3: 29:15

I think that a lot of leaders and again this is coupled with the fact that they just want quick solutions Well, we know that there are no quick solutions to complex problems, and so I think that derails us all too often sometimes hey, let me go attend this leadership course and that'll fix everything.

Speaker 3: 29:32

Meanwhile, they're in the leadership course thinking about all the things that they need to do as soon as they get back to the office. So they're not even, you know, gaining the value of that course because they're mentally elsewhere. So that's a part of the issue. So I think that there needs to be that commitment into adjusting how you're thinking, adjusting how you're operating, and ensure that there are accountabilities associated with making that shift. So, from a tactical standpoint, I don't think that we are equipped to embrace those things that can be done, that have been done in the past. But in addition to that, I think we need something more deeper, and those are the kinds of resiliency models that you and Anatoly talk about. I think that is required for us to make that kind of shift that we're looking for things right now.

Speaker 2: 30:33

Anatoly, I think there's mindfulness meditation. I mean that kind of tends to go over a lot of executives' heads, because I will say that many more of the executives now are getting 10 minutes or five minutes or 15 minutes in a day and they do see that it has benefits for them because it slows them down enough. They kind of, at least for those moments after it, they feel calmer and then maybe the day starts and that comes back. And there is some, of course, a lot of research that meditation has a residual effect over time with consistent effort. What do you think is the challenge for these leadership solutions that we've used for years? That may have felt like it had an impact, but don't anymore.

Speaker 4: 31:09

You know, first, what is just to give credit to people who are trying to resolve that, probably for themselves. Okay, Because they're looking for solutions. Let's see, they say that if you jump in a tub filled with ice, it's going to ensure the rush of dopamine and you'll feel like you're really in control. I know it's going to like fade away pretty quickly and you know it's not very comfortable to jump in. You know, kind of stay there even for 10 seconds. Well, what if I start like taking nootropics? You know, nootropics sometimes come across as like a varying degree of things that kind of like, you know, revitalize the brain, my cognitive functions get better, stuff like that. Well, the side effects are there, but I will think about them when I retire.

Speaker 4: 31:55

Oh, how about microdosing? Okay, that's good, but people kind of actually spot me being high pretty quickly in the meeting and when I have to present something, people say like it's not like nodding hands, like this guy's high. So you see, I mean they look for solutions and some of them use like technological, you know, solutions like brain devices, like the headbands, that kind of program their brain waves to be in a certain state. But then some of them realize that looks stupid. Coming into a meeting wearing that headband. People look at me like, did you have, like a brain surgery? No, no, no, no, I'm just trying to stay sane. You just bear with me. So you see, people do things, okay, People do things, but some of them reconcile with something in the middle. I need a magic bullet, be that a good, credible coach that speaks my language good, credible coach that speaks my language, okay that I can trust and who can actually give me some assurance that I will survive tomorrow. Then maybe I need to change my diet do something like pop something.

Speaker 4: 33:04

Yeah, so people start thinking about a combination. But she mentioned mindfulness. It's interesting because if you look at some cases out there, there's a case of Microsoft, of their CEO, satya Nadella, who in 2014, became the CEO of Microsoft and turned around the mindset in the company from the fixed mindset to something by introducing mindfulness being present, self-aware, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, I mean, technically it's not something and it comes across being present, self-aware, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, I mean, technically it's not something and it kind of comes across as being fluff. But people, if they apply it, like you said, in incremental stages five minutes here, 10 minutes there it does do something. Okay, makes a difference.

Speaker 2: 33:46

Being present is good yeah, exactly, you show up. Being awake is good.

Speaker 4: 33:48

Being there, that is good. Yeah, exactly, you show up.

Speaker 2: 33:51

Being awake is good being there.

Speaker 4: 33:53

That's good. Yeah, you're right being present.

Speaker 2: 33:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 33:59

But it's interesting because people try all sorts of stuff.

Speaker 4: 34:01

But you have to understand people crave this instant gratification results right now, because I may not survive tomorrow, right? So give me something now, something that works. And that's why I think we're getting to a point where people just start saying look, okay, maybe we can't really reinvent ourselves, we can't really be doing something. We just need to create some sort of an environment where things are predictable. For at least me to stay sane, so I need to have people close to me who are a bit dumber, because I cannot be like, look at that environment with everybody being smart, overwhelmed, burnt out and competing. That's too much.

Speaker 4: 34:47

Right, I have some loyal people. They're not that bright, but that gives me the illusion that things are okay because they're in the capable hands of these dumb people. So everything is under control. I'm making more like a joke, but I know, if you think about that from the psychological perspective, it's all about changing my perspective. If I start trying to catch it up with anything I have around me, I'll go nuts before noon. Okay, I will never survive the afternoon, right? So people try to create the environment around them that's predictable but false, right? So that's why they kind of quote oh yeah, I'll think about that tomorrow, I'll just need to you know, get through the day here.

Speaker 2: 35:30

Yeah, and just juxtaposition that and going back to some things Ryan said. I mean, what are we craving? To walk into a building where there's meaning and obviously that's not the top level of conscious thought of an executive. I get that, but I want to walk in and feel excited about what I'm going to do today. I can't wait to have that meeting with my team. I got some ideas and I want to walk in and feel excited about what I'm going to do today. I can't wait to have that meeting with my team. I got some ideas and I want to hear what they think about it.

Speaker 2: 35:55

The feeling when you walk into that building, it's this is our place and that we're up the big stuff and we're, you know, our customer, the customer experience that we're creating. We love listening to our customers. You think about, like you go back to like companies like Southwest or Starbucks and still have kind of create that customer experience for people, that we're behind that because we're moving the cheese on that. We're making a difference and I got the energy and my tank and the abilities and the focus and the abilities to do all that. That's what we pray, that's what we. I don't care. Yeah, I want to make sure our profitability is here and that our performance levels are at this level, and I expect people to get stuff done and I want them to be accountable for what they're doing.

Speaker 2: 36:37

All that's true, but all that if you create environments as you were pointing to earlier, ryan that are like that. That's what we all want. We want and I think a lot of executives are recognizing where they're hitting the wall and exiting is I'm making all this money, I've got these golden handcuffs, but I want to get out of them. I'm tired, I can't take them off. I want to go, because I'm hearing more and more conversations with I want to do something that feels like it's a legacy. It leaves something behind. It's got to be meaningful too. So, ryan, you wanted to say something.

Speaker 3: 37:14

Yeah, david, what I think you're describing in terms of that longing for meaning. There's a completely different energy to what you're talking about.

Speaker 2: 37:23

I hope people felt that I thought we needed to lift the energy a little bit in the conversation. We were being sad and miserable. We dilute the energy a little bit in the conversation.

Speaker 3: 37:34

We were being sad and miserable. Well, I think to the point. I sense and feel, and I think any listener recognizes, the different energy of what you're talking about in terms of pursuing that meaning and making a difference for other people. That in and of itself is a different paradigm of thinking and it's sensed and experienced by people around that by the different energy that that brings. But once again we are brought down into the basic blocking and tackling oh well, I've got this meeting to do and that meeting to do and I've got this going on and that going on.

Speaker 3: 38:06

So, while we may have that intention of that meaning and purpose and impact and legacy the things that we ultimately desire, we are drawn away from that on a regular basis, from the day-to-day tactics of what we have to execute in order to be successful and continue to move that stone up the hill.

Speaker 3: 38:25

You know, and I think about it from this perspective and I don't know if it lends anything to the audience, but hopefully it does, you know, give you a better image of what we're talking about. Is this material versus immaterial? It's almost the left brain versus the right brain, and I think we all recognize that most of us in corporate America operate from that left brain mentality. That's what kind of got us there our engineering chops or our subject matter expertise chops and things of that nature. And so what do we have a tendency to do is double down on what got us there, when in fact, what we're talking about is completely reforming the paradigm to be more meaning based, to be more impactful based and that requires a right brain mentality and approach, and so that recalibrates us ultimately to think in a very different way and to look at those day-to-day tasks in a very different way.

Speaker 2: 39:23

Yeah, you and I have conversations already. I think it's the Russian and American mentalities butting heads at times. I'm just joking, see our nose executives. They don't care about that stuff, they just want results. We have to give them results. They don't want to hear any fluff. But at the same time, now we're talking about this. What do you say to that? What are your thoughts on this whole thing of you know bringing more of that flavor of meaning throughout an organization and through leadership? Does it really matter?

Speaker 4: 39:48

leadership. Does it really matter? Well, let's put it this way it really takes an enlightened way executive to recognize that, but only from a perspective like if that makes me feel good. So if I do, something, then I feel good about it, my team feels good about it. Right, I will stand out as the one who creates the right environment.

Speaker 2: 40:12

Yes, it makes me look good yeah exactly, yeah.

Speaker 4: 40:15

Well, hey, let's recognize that it's all ego-driven. So if you're not ego-driven, what are you doing in the company? You won't survive there, right? So the idea is that I've met a lot of people who had capable teams, but the way they built their teams was always different. Very few people thought like, okay, I want to take care of my team so that my results are better, so I look good. I always kind of applauded that. Hey, either way, it doesn't matter what the reason is behind your motivation. As long as it makes everybody's life better, that's fine, right? But the thing is that what we're having today is that what you were describing. You were saying, like, well, looking at the building, I can't wait to go in and, you know, meet my team and we all will be like sitting kumbaya, sit together waiting to see how we can.

Speaker 2: 41:13

That's taking a bit too far, I know.

Speaker 4: 41:17

I'm not saying that Okay, okay, I'm stretching it.

Speaker 2: 41:20

I'm stretching it.

Speaker 4: 41:22

Think about this. Think about this. Unfortunately, the reason I bring this up unfortunately these days are gone. This up, unfortunately these days are gone. There's no way of going back to those days when we could have moments of that social cohesion that we could actually relate to people at work. Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever go back to those days. On the other hand, the current environment and climate and companies it's hardly conducive to anything. So it's just a red ocean state pretty much everywhere, regardless of how they want to really describe that. Oh yeah, we serve a lot of snacks, we have the sleeping room, we have the cushions and the music in the background.

Speaker 2: 42:09

customers Back cleaners at work to entertain us. Yeah, I mean yeah, background Customers.

Speaker 4: 42:11

Back cleaners at work To entertain us. Yeah, I mean yeah, exactly. So all that stuff doesn't work because the amount of work that needs to get done still stays there and the longer you procrastinate, there's no existing solution. With people allocating time to work with their therapists you know, strengths coaches that time is not there anymore, Because you may be carving out that time from your sleep, because, based on what I heard from people who are in their jobs, I just don't understand how they actually get to sleep, given all those crazy deadlines.

Speaker 2: 42:53

Yeah, I mean, I do feel that when I talk to executives, when do you have time to actually spend time with your kids and enjoy your life as well? This is another impact. Well, I want to move towards solution a little bit here and first, before we get to a solution, I really want to talk about what we have to affect within the human being that allows us to meet higher demands, because the change isn't going away. We're in the midst of a major, I believe, transformation in society and human beings right now, and we're kind of going through the pre-Renaissance period and I hope right. We're going through a period where structures are falling apart while new ones are being created and to meet that, and we've established that the burnout is high and that the traditional methods aren't working.

Speaker 2: 43:41

But what I want to talk about is what is it that we are most needing to address in the human being? And I think it's a radical shift in how we perceive, think and operate as human beings. It's an upgrade, an upgrade is being called for. So, gentlemen, ultimately, what's at the heart of that upgrade that will shift the way we perceive, think and operate? In other words, what are we trying to affect in the human being, because I think we have to talk about it.

Speaker 3: 44:08

I'm interested in hearing what Anatoly has to say on this, because I think he's got a great deal of insight. So I'm going to sit down and let Anatoly take a step forward.

Speaker 4: 44:18

Okay. So let's look at the situation from this perspective and again, I just will be very, very, very basic in my description. Yeah, sure, because people don't want to hear the fluff stuff and any terms that they don't really care about Prefrontal cortex and blah, blah, blah and this and that, yeah, okay. So let's think about this If I want to get a six-pack, I go and I exercise, right, and maybe with luck, I'll get my six-pack right. If I want to become smarter, I go and study, I cram and I become smarter.

Speaker 4: 44:51

Now, unfortunately, it worked in the old world. So something's missing today, which means that, well, I'm smart, but I'd not be able to beat the competition. You know, I'm healthy, I work out, but it's not enough. I'm definitely missing something. Well, a big farmer suggests that maybe I should start experimenting with things out there, right, but hey, I'm afraid of side effects because I know the guy who did that and he, kind of like, turned it into a vegetable, right. So people start thinking like, okay, whatever is experimental value out there is dicey, I'm not risking my career and my health, traditional methods are not working. But what is it that I'm missing out? So we are talking about the mental state. There's only this much you can do. The physical condition there's only this much you can do. But apparently people begin to suspect there is something greater out there, even though they don't want to go into this spiritual awakening, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 4: 45:55

If you chant your boss's name a thousand times, you get promoted the next day. I mean, people don't want to do that stuff, so. So they still think like something needs to exist in the traditional sense that nobody sees, and it should be right under my nose and I just need some help to spot that and do that, okay, so that's why we're talking about this today. So how do we meet this challenge without actually going into the religious direction, right? Or you know, spiritual development? Is there something that's happening that's enough to get us boosted to a level to help us stay in the game, maybe for another two, three years, because we don't know what's going to happen, right? So let's say that I'm looking at the horizon and I want to last my job and just do this, okay. So then we start looking at this. Just do this, okay. So they will start looking at this. Well, maybe there is something outside of my physical body that still belongs to me, right, and I still have something, have looked for ways to address it, okay, but of course, they don't like the word Like, okay. So what's outside of my mind? My mind is here, my brain is here. My webware has been upgraded to. You know, like the word like okay. So what's outside of my mind? My mind is here, my brain is here, my wetware has been upgraded to Windows 12. I've got the physical condition. That's okay.

Speaker 4: 47:20

But nobody wants to talk about the level of consciousness, okay. And they say, well, I cannot take it to the bank. What's consciousness, right? Well, think about this. What's your own projection beyond your physical body? But that still has all those characteristics that you can upgrade to affect your physical body, your mental and emotional performance. And then you get their attention. Well, give me some metrics. How do I know? It's all true, it's not just a mumbo-jumbo. Well, look it up on the net. It's like Dr Hawkins, thousand levels of consciousness, right? So if you're a typical standard executive operated out of command and control or fear-based style, you could be like in between 200 to 150 on the scale of consciousness, right? Well, we ultimately need to get to at least 300, 400 on that scale. I would say yeah. To have a balance, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4: 48:19

So that's why people start saying, like, because I had that conversation before, okay, so I need to upgrade it. So what do I do? How do I know? You know, is there a scientific method for me to do that? Well, the whole thing is based on kinesiology, right? So he was just doing the muscle testing to identify those thousand levels of consciousness. Well, it's bogged down. It's not really scientific, but it is true Technically. If you find a way to use your own muscle testing about many things, you can confirm it.

Speaker 4: 48:53

So now we deal with this elephant in the room it's the last thing that was not addressed is our consciousness. Okay, so how do we do that? Well, I'm not ready to go into some exercise. Okay, I can do some meditation. I can do some mindfulness, right, but I know it's a long stretch. Okay, give me some exercise. Okay, I can do some meditation. I can do some mindfulness, right, but I know it's a long stretch. Okay, give me some metrics. Let's put it this way Say you're 250 and you need to up your game a bit, right? So what's the best speed you can get, or rate of elevating your consciousness? Unfortunately, with all best intentions at heart, you cannot elevate it by more than five points a year. Same for me.

Speaker 2: 49:36

Through meditation and that takes tremendous effort to move. At five points you have to be able to meditate maybe one to two hours a day and be reflective. That's right. You have to engage on an intense basis, so as we've seen, most executives won't have the patience for that.

Speaker 4: 49:54

Yeah, because they want to have the assurance right. Okay, if I meditate, okay, for two, three years, four years, forget it, give me something now, give me some hope right now. So I say, look, then there is a different way of doing that right. For example, that's how I discovered what I do has value. It's because a lot of people in the executive kind of like realm. They did a lot of traveling to sacred places, places of power, where people felt that resonance and something happened to their perception of the world. They came back enlightened and then they started doing those tours right, and one day they came back and said like, oh, you feel like they're placed in machu picchu. You know, there's something like there's something.

Speaker 2: 50:39

Yeah, because they're too there when you tune in, when you tune into it and you feel you can feel in other places like you can feel it in you. I want to, I want to get to that in a moment. I want to to talk about your abilities, because it's really important. What I'm hearing you say is consciousness is beyond thought. It's more than intellect and cognitive function. It's about intuition, emotion, self-awareness, a connection to the greater whole. Not trying to get esoteric here, but when you're more connected you're more in tune, and when you're more in tune you make better decisions. You get to see oh, I see what's happening here. I'm in the moment right now. I need to make an intervention right now and that's where we are most effective in the moment, because that's the only time we can do anything about anything. Right, but let's talk about what are the implications given to all that we've talked about the stress, the overwhelm. Is it worth it? I got to fake it till I make it and get bustled through and try these neurotropics and all the things to try to do it.

Speaker 2: 51:32

What is the effect of raising consciousness for an executive dealing in these things and what are the benefits? What are the practical benefits of that? One thing that I've noticed as it's happened for me and as I've worked with you. Anatoly is, it's like complexity is not a challenge for me anymore. The idea is that I might react to it initially, but then I relax and I'm able to say, okay, I just need to take care of this one thing and that's all happening automatically. It isn't happening in my head. There's something else going on to deal with that. A clarity comes, a calmness comes and I just deal with what I have to deal with. There's sometimes what you have to do in life. You just got to deal with what you got to deal with. But other things you would say about what's the benefits of this for executives as they raise their consciousness, what is it going to bring to the table?

Speaker 4: 52:22

What would you say are the results.

Speaker 4: 52:23

Well, think about this. First, they want to understand, like, okay, give me a simple picture, right, of what it's like. So I usually say look, imagine you have a computer and you have lots of documents and files and everything. It just cranks out things very slowly for you. So what's the solution if you don't want to buy a new one? Well, you reorganize the files on the hard drive, right, To make sure that the laser can access those files faster, so you can pull them up faster.

Speaker 4: 52:53

Well, that's very similar, you know, reallocation of your own internal resources in such a manner so it becomes optimal for you and at the same time you don't have to be even cautious of that. It just happens, Chips thrown around, reorganized in a way to serve you better, and then you may not even be paying attention to this, right. But you know, you see, like, okay, I've got more energy. My performance, you know, has peaked right. I've got a lot of mental clarity and mental sharpness. I'm not reactive anymore and, like you said, I'm unfazed by the level of complexity I'm presented with. I've got my resilience, I've got all cylinders going, but deep inside I remain very calm. Now the thing that they like more, other than those elements. They say look what's really interesting. The way you feel inside and how you stay inside affects the world around you. It affects the people you're dealing with. Yeah, it's like emotional contagion, right? They feel you're calm, everybody's calm.

Speaker 2: 54:05

You feel you're relaxed, so you're having an effect on those outside, but also there's a sense of as your consciousness raised. There's a sense of centeredness and not overwhelmed the overwhelm. It's almost like you have a force field that overwhelm bounces off of as your consciousness raises.

Speaker 4: 54:23

And that's the best part, because it just adds one more thing that they're craving. You always feel you're in control.

Speaker 2: 54:30

Yeah, that's the other thing and that's the overwhelming control. That's very key.

Speaker 2: 54:33

Very very important Because, intuitively, you know what I don't control, what I do control, what I can control, which is a lot of has to do with boils down to my attention so I can direct it on the right things, and that's what's being scattered right now the ability to tend to what I want to attend to. So I want to just recap and then go into this a little bit deeper. It's just so we know we've been on this kind of conversation and we can lay it down to reality. Executives are facing this relentless pest, so increasing disillusionment and the solutions aren't keeping up with it. We see now like burnout leaders isn't just a personal issue. It's an organizational crisis as well. We made it clear from just your recent points that expanding consciousness isn't just some abstract idea. Raising is the only way and the only solution today for leaders to gain greater clarity, resilience and influence. Fair enough, but here's the challenge. We said we can't do. Meditation is too slow, training is too slow. Coaching probably is still the most powerful intervention because you have somebody and you want to pick somebody that's been there and done that, that's helped. Had they already ahead of you in this territory? That's what I would say to my clients Don't pick somebody that just picked up a mindfulness book because it's going to regurgitate mindfulness practice, obviously.

Speaker 2: 55:50

So the question is how do we make this shift quickly, effectively and scale, which I think is what executives want? And this is where I want to talk about the resilient leadership method that you were starting to point to a little bit. It's a breakthrough approach that Anatoly and I have developed that is delivering what CEOs and executives are longing for. That is not found in traditional leadership development. Now, for those that are out there that are maybe listening, that are leadership development professionals, I want to speak to you for a second. Whether you're a coach, a trainer, organizational development professional, we encourage our peers to push the envelope. We want other solutions like this out there because we need real transformation leadership right now and we are in a crisis. Sharing this isn't about putting down the profession or being head of the competition. It's about raising the bar and how we develop leaders quickly. We have to have leadership development people stepping up and looking for solutions like I'm about to share.

Speaker 2: 56:47

So what's different about the leadership, the resilient leader model, and why is it so different? At its core, it has two components the resilient leader reset, which is an instant, permanent shift in consciousness that expands the executive's clarity, presence and resilience in ways that expands the executive's clarity, presence and resilience in ways that, as Arnatelli said, normally would take years. It breaks the reactive patterns, it eliminates mental noise Plenty of other benefits we'll talk about and it's done in two one-hour sessions. That's all done. Hard to believe, but we have seen it be 100% effective with over 20 clients and it works. Now we follow that up with the second component, which is resilient leader coaching. Have seen it be 100% effective with over 20 clients and it works. Now we follow that up with the second component, which is resilient leader coaching that follows a reset. Now, why is this? Because it ensures executives sustain and integrate their transformation from the day-to-day experience to today experience.

Speaker 2: 57:37

Because you can be good after the reset and go on, but you are missing huge opportunities. It's kind of like getting like you're told you have a gold mine underneath your house that goes 15 floors below but you kick into the first floor. So you're happy with the first floor, but you have 14 other levels underneath you that you want to mine and bring to the surface. And the coaching helps you mine that gold. It helps you adjust to the new state. So what we've been pleased to see with Resilient Leader Method is it provides this profound shift, immediate shift, that creates greater clarity, decision-making all the things that Anatoly was speaking about. So that all sounds good. Maybe sounds too good to be true, but we've seen it.

Speaker 2: 58:24

And we also have people that are approaching us that know about consciousness and studied consciousness for years. People that run into Anatoly, that have been developing their own consciousness for years, tend to pick it up quickly. And maybe, ryan, you can share a little bit about your experience when you first interacted with Anatoly. But I'd like you to unpack it a little bit and walk us through what makes this so unique and how it delivers you. So how does sitting with you for a couple hours make these shifts happen, and what is it that you've discovered about yourself that you bring to the table to be able to do that? We've searched long and high. We haven't found anybody in the world that can do this, so I'm going to put you on the hot seat. Man, tell us how this magic happens, okay.

Speaker 4: 59:06

Well, just because I'm funny, no, just kidding. Laughter is the way forward.

Speaker 2: 59:15

Okay, okay.

Speaker 4: 59:16

But before I start, I just have to make a comment about what you said. The coaching is not about just looking for the gold right under your feet. It's something that's really important I want to make here as a statement. The coaching helps your mind, because your mind is your biggest enemy. It will be fighting you every inch of the way about your new transformative state. It will be trying to tell you like, oh, you don't need to be overthinking things, you can do so much. No, no, no, stop, stop. It's not true. So coaching what it does, it helps the belief system shift because it's just like look, look at what happened. The reason you have more energy, more clarity and all that stuff that has happened to you is because you've gone through some sort of experience internally and now you have to really focus what is it?

Speaker 4: 1:00:09

exactly that. You got out of it. See, without coaching, I had people becoming unhinged because they would be going around, you know, firing up an all cylinder and not really put in the right frame of mind. Okay, because they were thinking like I don't need to sleep, I don't need to take my meds, I'm on top of the world, I'm invincible, I'm this. So I was like horrified because I did not, did not laugh for this to happen.

Speaker 2: 1:00:37

Okay, it's kind of like putting a 12-year-old behind the wheel of a Ferrari.

Speaker 4: 1:00:43

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:00:43

They'd be very, very excited. But I don't think that Ferrari would last long.

Speaker 4: 1:00:47

Unfortunately, you can imagine the risks it entails. Right the first turn could be you know could be his.

Speaker 4: 1:00:54

So yeah, so that's why, you know, I'm just trying to kind of like beef up coaching here a little bit more because it has a lot more to offer. Number two, the second point I'm trying to make here coaching done in a traditional sense has to overcome a lot of mental resistance of the client. See through, figure it all out, just like with the shrink right, how it makes sense takes five, seven years, three years, four years, I don't know, but there's a lot of mental resistance. Now, doing that reverse, it's beautiful, everything falls in place. You understand all of it. It's been supported internally on some neural level that anything you hear from you, david right, it's just kind of like okay, yeah, I understand that.

Speaker 2: 1:01:39

Yeah, and the experience of me coaching a post-reset person versus a pre-reset person is completely different. There's a completely different quality conversation.

Speaker 2: 1:01:48

Not only do they do their homework in between sessions there's not much homework, actually, but there's some. They come to the sessions ready to go sharing insights, sharing ideas, and that sharing of insights and what they've gained and what they're in touch with now that they weren't in touch with, is valuable now, because I'm the mirror to reflect back to them. Keep going there, do this tweak, this, pay attention to this, and the other side of it is they understand the value of vision and articulating clarity around their vision, and that's one another outcome. They appreciate that, and they're not only that, they're thinking through it, and that thinking through it in our traditional way, it's almost like something's cooking in them, and now they come to me as a sounding board to share and it's being articulated automatically with them. Now I encourage them to get it down, because that's powerful.

Speaker 4: 1:02:40

You're right, the resistance is not there anymore, yeah, and point number three, referring to the coaching, what's really important, because the moment the process is triggered, it kind of runs in the background, so the person may not be even aware of what's going on. But having coaching to support that is extremely valuable because, you don't know, you may wake up this morning, oh, I feel, you know, I feel something totally new, right, but everything is all positive, all exciting and everything. So you need to have someone credible like you as a coach next to, to share. Hey, I've been discovering, I've been this capacity and it's like this and that lots of things. Right, it's almost like reimagining and reinventing yourself. So having someone to help you kind of get through the process, you know, kind of guide it, you know, is very important.

Speaker 4: 1:03:36

Now, back to this. It's not like there isn't anybody like me out there, right, because I've been looking for somebody like me. But what I discovered? I met some people and they kind of like have different modalities to get people in a kind of altered state. Right, it's almost like you know, there are people who can put you in a state of flow. It's called the Alexander Method. Yeah, bankers pay a lot of money to be put in that state of flow. Well, the trouble with that is you can get on a bike and pedal away for about two hours and you'll be in the state of flow for 40 minutes, right? So, unless you want to be at the workstation right in that state of flow, well, here's a very simple piece of advice Just come up with something really difficult to find and Google it. Google it for two hours and you will be in the state of flow. I can guarantee you that right.

Speaker 4: 1:04:36

And then I met some people who kind of put you in this strange transcendent state and all that. Yeah, people do that. And there's one guy who even claimed the same thing, that he could raise consciousness, and in fact he did something. So he's a Japanese guy who spent some time in the States with the guy who is one of the people behind the theory of consciousness. So they spent a whole year together looking into that.

Speaker 4: 1:05:03

So I'm not saying I'm the only one, but what's the difference? What I do sticks Other people yeah, that's important, because that's the first thing that any business person asks. Okay, big deal, you put me in some altered state. I feel different, I feel like I'm levitating out of thebody. Experience, lucid dreaming, astral travel, I don't care. I want to own the result. If I work out right and I build some muscle, I want to own it. I don't want to go to sleep and wake up and have a lot of flam around me, right? So, people, it's all about control how much I can control of what I can get and that's why we here are unbeatable in that regard.

Speaker 2: 1:05:51

And another thing I was concerned about when we started writing this is this going to mess with the way who they are, what, how they think about themselves, what their values are? And what I love about this? It goes back to they fully own it. Nothing gets messed with in their psyche. It's clean. It is really at the level of consciousness and the nervous system. It's not in their perceptions of the world or how they think or what they aspire to be. All that is left alone. There's no manipulation of the human being in this process. It's clean, clean energy.

Speaker 2: 1:06:21

So one of the things I do want to like emphasize here it's hard to explain what you do. It's your present, you have the ability to engage people into a state and then something intervenes and ignites a self-healing. That's a good summary of it. Is there anything you want to say about the process? Because people are out there probably going well, this sounds really good, but it sounds a little bit good to be true. And what is he actually doing? If I was listening to this, I'd be saying what is he actually doing? I think it's one level that can be explained about why it works from a neuroscience standpoint, but what is actually happening?

Speaker 4: 1:06:58

Okay, so the beauty of it is like again, we just nailed down the fact that the results stay. Okay, that's good. Number one, which is again that people usually ask me about what's the format? Do I have to be indoctrinated, inducted? There's something I need to be doing? That's kind of weird. I'm not prepared for that, right? So I usually say, look, the format is very simple. It's just like me talking on any subject. It doesn't matter what I'm talking about. You just have to be exposed long enough to me talking so that the first rule of the neuroplasticity kicks in, the so-called Hebbian rule. The neurons that fire together, wire together. Right, it's a whole rewiring of the nervous system and the brain. So technically it's called a sound entrainment. The fancy term is theta-band inter-brain neural synchrony or coupling. It means that you get into a theta state. How do you get there? By being exposed to me just talking about stuff, right.

Speaker 2: 1:08:03

And again there's no, because you're operating in that theta state all the time, 100% of the time. Yes, that's right.

Speaker 4: 1:08:11

But why is it that the other person goes and starts resonating with me? Well, because the way the acoustic signal is processed by the brain right and then converted to the electrical, then converted through your voice.

Speaker 2: 1:08:23

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4: 1:08:25

We all know that we get in sync with each other when we socialize or we interact. So what I do is not much different. But for me to kind of stay in the interactive mode will not result in anything. I have to be doing the talking so that your system can adjust to my level of producing things right Now. It's actually very simple. Like I said, it's not what I say, it's how I say this. Right, Because the neuroscience already knows what it is. It's a thing called prosody, element of the speech processing. Well, technically it's the rhythm and the tempo, and actually it's more about syllables. The way I pronounce my syllables, being Russian, makes your brain go into that. It works.

Speaker 2: 1:09:15

Yeah, it works. It's kind of different enough that it makes it easier to entrain. Exactly, so it works. For some reason, I speak it's kind of different enough that it kind of makes it easier to train. Exactly. Yeah, so it works for some reason I speak several languages.

Speaker 4: 1:09:25

It works in most languages. I mean my way of pronouncing things kind of system to identify that state as being most optimal to stay in and then it begins to reproduce that state on its own using the complexity of the neurotransmitters serotonin versus dopamine. It just rejigs the entire system in a way that it runs in the background and then within weeks or months it completely rebuilds your nervous system and the way your brain functions, right. So that's why that's the beauty of it. You don't need to be exposed to me all the time, I just need to set the machinery going okay. So that's number one.

Speaker 4: 1:10:22

Number one when I get the other person to resonate with me, this is a perfect moment to remove any negative blockages that the person may have. It's almost like loosening the stuff inside a person so that any trauma can come off very easily. Because you're in a resonant state and just because you've experienced some level of trauma before early in your childhood or in your life, you can easily remove any of that. So that's number two. It's very important.

Speaker 4: 1:10:50

Once you purge and you expunge the level of trauma in your system, you become purely optimal, right In that state that runs in the background and you, basically your body, has initiated that process for you, so it's working for you. That's why what you said, it's self-healing, right? It's not like you don't have to say, oh, and it totally healed me, no, no, no, I have nothing to do with it. You just need to be exposed to the source of that transformative energy coming through the sound, right? So then you yourself do all the work, and your body does all the work. Your subconscious mind does all the work, because that's the glue that puts your state in that fixed state that you don't fall back, so you don't lose it, Because once your consciousness goes up, anything that you have working for you goes up and stays there and will stay at your disposal forever, right?

Speaker 2: 1:12:07

I mean basically there's no falling back or losing that level. Well, it's kind of like when a computer gets operated to the latest Mac operating system, it doesn't go back, it stays there, and then new applications are available that weren't available before. That's a way to say that, that you're kind of raising this up, and I want to point to one of the most consistent feedbacks and I'm talking to people that have done it two years and they say it hasn't changed, so that pointing that all the results are saying exactly the people that have been through this process it stays there. Oh, I used to. Whenever my husband would say this, I would, all of a sudden, that is just not there anymore.

Speaker 2: 1:12:40

And that's the thing about coaching. You know, I used to just realizing. I used to react this way when something went wrong in the business, and now I'm just saying how did that happen? What do we have to do to fix it? I'm being more matter of fact about things and getting to the heart of things. I'm not going to the reactive stage which puts everybody back on their heels and then you have to forget. You know, sorry, okay, let's talk about it. So all those things stop and resolve, which is pretty phenomenal.

Speaker 4: 1:13:09

Yeah, I want to stress again this thing because it just comes up a lot and when people say, like, how do I know that you're not altering my character or my belief systems? Because altering my character or my belief systems, because I really, I really don't. That's why I would never go into any hypnosis, wonder any influence from somebody, because I don't know what they're doing to me, I said, look, it goes like that. If you're a douche, you go through this process. You'll be like enlightened douche and enlightened, that's it. I'm not changing you. I mean it's technically like you will know, because people will still give you credit for being who you are right, but they will notice there's something about you that kind of like puts you, you know, on a different level, because I know people have that concern all the time.

Speaker 2: 1:13:53

What, if you are doing something to me, of course it makes sense that you have a concern. Well, this sounds too good. It sounds too good to be true. What is the what's the side effect? And there's no side effect.

Speaker 4: 1:14:04

There are no side effects because it's your own body doing that for you see, that's the thing. So. So that's why, once the process is triggered, it just goes on until one day you wake up and it's fully complete, everything has been taken care of, and then the only thing is that the coaching helps you. Pay attention how much headway you've made. I mean like in progress, because without that you won't even know. You just take it for granted, because, people, it's human to take things for granted, right? It's like, oh yeah, big deal, I don't hurt anymore. Okay, well, nothing is aching anymore, right? So we just have to, kind of you as a coach, have to alert people to look at this, it's gone. The reactivity is gone, right, yeah?

Speaker 2: 1:14:47

And one of the interesting things is, a lot of times we complete the decision to go forward by having a short conversation with you and when people are at that stage, they're seriously considering. I think I want to do this, but I do want to talk to a guy before I do it and to a fault they always come back and that was the most enjoyable conversation. I felt this boost in my energy, I felt this boost in focus and, ryan, I thought you might speak to that a little bit to say what you experienced when you first talked to Anatoly and what you noticed when you talked to him.

Speaker 3: 1:15:17

Yeah, no question about it. I just find this whole conversation so, so intriguing, and I think it is a part of what people are longing for. They know that there's got to be a solution out there. There's got to be something that helps to elevate them so that they're equipped to handle the day-to-day kind of things, but in a manner that is more effective and more conducive to their own health and well-being, as well as those around them. So to have this kind of tool and solution available for folks just really excites me.

Speaker 3: 1:15:50

In fact, I had an opportunity a few weeks ago, after one of our podcasts, where I experienced that heightened state just as a result of having an hour and a half long conversation. I was on a roll, I was in that flow state, I was able to articulate more clearly and my awareness was heightened as a result of it. And, mind you, I haven't gone through this resilient leader method. This is just from the experience of interacting with you two gentlemen, around this particular topic. So I took this opportunity because I really enjoyed the feeling of it and I said you know, I think that by sharing this with other people, it will deepen my experience and what I'm feeling. So I did.

Speaker 3: 1:16:33

I took that hint and followed my intuition and shared this with two friends and colleagues, and as I was describing this to them, I could see their eyes widening and widening and say, wow, you know, where's this been? You know, I would love to have this kind of thing and I like your analogy about the 12-year-old driving the Ferrari. That's something that definitely resonates with me in terms of the experience and feeling. I had a new mode of operating that was much faster and sleeker and better in all aspects, and as I shared this with other people, they were like you know, where can I sign up, so to speak? Imagine being made a new. You guys talked about a reset, resetting yourself. I kind of think about it as being made new. You have all the energy and the wonder and the awe that comes with being a younger child, but not all the drama and the weight associated with life experience. Imagine what that would unleash in you.

Speaker 2: 1:17:32

Yeah, you still have the experience, the wisdom that you've attained. In fact, the wisdom goes deeper. You get to understand more what you went through and why it was valuable, and call that and mine that gold if you will.

Speaker 4: 1:17:45

Yeah, I think it's very good to share your experience Because, you see, you're the only one untainted on this call, so to speak, coming in like that, basically experiencing as we all go here, so that's that's great.

Speaker 4: 1:18:02

Thank you for sharing this, and this is I think it was part of the. It was actually the reason, and so we have the some impartiality, uh, in our show, so that people would know it's not like everybody's drinking, you know the school aid, right, it's like, oh yeah, they're all talking about this, they're all conspired, but you are are sharing your firsthand experience, which is great, and I really appreciate that. We definitely need this.

Speaker 4: 1:18:28

Because one. Yeah, I have to be totally honest here. There's one downside, but it's more personal, that comes with this. It's because, since I'm the one causing the transformation in the person, people who go through the method with me, they tend to be very you know, very much, you know not really willing to see me again because of the level of deep, transformative experience that they go. You know, it's like it's always like you put took me out of the comfort zone, because even though these things are happening for me, they're great. But at the same time, every time I see you, it's like I have become aware of how much inside of me has changed. But again, it's personal, but again it has nothing to do with me personally. It's the same thing applies to other people, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:19:22

What they're doing is getting in sync to what we have at the deepest core of ourselves and that you are highly I'm not in touch with you highly there. So the where we are common and where we are united is very powerful and I think that's one thing, that you're basically opening the door to that. Everybody to get there faster and take the elevator up a little bit. I will just say a couple final words for me and I'd like to hear if you guys have any final words before we close the show. But it's been a great show and I've been on this journey. When I got religion around leadership development it was when I was going into my master's in organizational development and I just felt like I was feeding at the trough of a delicious meal every day, going and sitting at the feet of these people that were, like launched to organizational development profession and they had, I would say, a higher state of awareness because they could see complexity in two things and as I started to develop on the journey and then I ran into Bob Anderson's work in the leadership circle, and as I started to develop on the journey and then I ran into Bob Anderson's work in the leadership circle, which is a tool that measures the level of consciousness a leader is in. It's one of the top 360 degree instruments in the world that does do this. Even though that's not what they articulate, that's what it does and I recognized yeah, we have to get to this level to be a leader. It's not a means of competency. Those come. Something else has to happen first. There has to be a raise in awareness and oasis of consciousness in the human being. And here's where the whole thing happens, where the challenge happened. Every year we go through that excited and you realize okay, so how do we get in there? And I've been on a quest ever since I did his work and going down a lot of dark alleys and hit my head on a lot of brick walls, looking for cause.

Speaker 2: 1:21:06

I knew there was a solution and I would say the same thing happened to me when I was introduced to Anatoly. I mean the same experience that Ryan just said. Got on a call with his friend Alan and we were talking back and forth and Alan introduced me. You got to talk to this guy. I said, okay, let's talk to him. You said to talk to him and as the call's going on, my energy isn't just going up. It's going up and it's smoothing out at the same time.

Speaker 2: 1:21:33

I would say that all my awareness and my attention was expanding. At the same time, I was feeling this lift in my emotional state and I knew this was something. And then I was fortunate enough to go to the reset. The rest is history, but that was my experience. It is the experience that a lot of people have. They can't articulate it like that because they haven't meditated for years. They just meet you, but that is the thing. So we've gone a long journey today and I just want to say if there's any final words from anybody about what they're taking away from today or anything they want to share before I close out the show.

Speaker 4: 1:22:04

Well, let me just kind of like add one more thing here, just to make sure like we're not being delusional, right, about what I can do and stuff like that, right? I just want to share an example, because I was headbaked by Thomson Reuters back in 2019 or even earlier, to be the guy to walk the stage for their eminent speakers. Because they actually paid attention to the fact that, look at the thousands of people. You put them in this kind of giggly, bubbly state. We want this state. We want our highly paid speakers to enjoy the same thing.

Speaker 4: 1:22:39

So how about we roll you out before those people? Are you okay, speaking in front of thousands of people, say, yeah, I don't care, I'll be talking about my accounting standards, because at the time, it was part of my gig. And then I realized, okay, I'm not being delusional, because I see these faces, like an ocean of faces in front of me, and all of them were like experiencing this. So that because you see remember, david, we had the discussion you know what's the percentage of people that could be affected and could not be affected, right? So that's why, for me, it was a good, like an eye opener. Oh, I'm not being delusional about this, it is working for a great many people. So I just wanted to say that I tried that on scale and mass talking before very large audiences, and so it's not just like a quirky thing that works only under very specific circumstances.

Speaker 2: 1:23:32

Right, yes, very good.

Speaker 3: 1:23:35

You know I love the term transformational, because we're not just talking about a slight you know tweak or change. We're not just putting you from a V6 into a V8 car. We're talking about putting you into a rocket ship, and I think that that's really where it comes down to. We've talked about all the pain points and the complexities and the stresses and the issues that we're facing and I think we all acknowledge that something has to give, something has to change and old methods are no longer going to work. In terms of where we are. This is an evolutionary step for leaders and that's what excites me about this. Even having not gone through it myself, I can get glimpses and sense where this is heading and, david, I see it in you and Anatoly as well. So I'm just excited and I know that in the brief conversations I've had with other people about this, they could see the value of what we're talking about in the resilient leader method, and I'm just delighted to be on this journey with you, gentlemen.

Speaker 2: 1:24:34

I'm glad you're here too, ryan, yeah, and we've had a long journey, anatoly and I trying to frame this, describe this. It's been three years and I do feel like we're at a point where the world is creating this and I want to just thank you both for being here today, appreciate you joining us. So today we've kind of launched this new format with a very powerful conversation, and what we've shared isn't just another leadership discussion. It's the kind of I said, the kind of transformation that the world is demanding. The good news you don't have to wait for years to change. It can happen right now. It is truly a silver bullet solution and today's conversation resonated with you and you're ready to explore how to lead with greater confidence, energy and resilience.

Speaker 2: 1:25:18

I invite you to reach out. Let's have a quick, no pressure conversation. I'm not interested in pushing you into doing anything, but we can talk about how the resilient leader method can help you become invincible in the face of today's uncertainty, and it truly will. People engage us, one of the things they say I feel invincible in the face of the stress. Now, let me be clear. This isn't just about what we offer. The leadership development field is also being asked to evolve and for what generates solutions like this, because the challenges executives are facing are slowing down. We need all hands on deck, so I also invite colleagues out there who want to raise their game to support the executive leaders to do something like this, and at some point, we may be needing, as we grow, more people to help us in doing that work as well.

Speaker 2: 1:26:01

Speaking of which, speaking of a game changer, if you think this show was at a whole nother level, we're about to reveal something in the next show that's going to completely redefine business leadership and how value is created. I'm not talking about AI or another technological revolution, or even another reset that we talked about today. It's bigger than reset that we talked about today. It's bigger than anything we've talked about today, and it's coming fast and it's going to impact everything, including how business is done. So, if that tweaked your interest, subscribe and follow and share this podcast because, trust me, you don't want to miss the next show. You do not want to miss it. Until then, keep leading, bolding, involving and staying unfazed under fire. See you next time. This is David Kragatz, a leadership alchemist, signing off. For now, have a great rest of your day.