Speaker 1: 0:11

Welcome to Unfazed Under Fire, a podcast designed to elevate your leadership and amplify your impact. Each episode offers valuable insights to help you transform your vision into reality, cultivate high-performing cultures that attract top talents, and navigate the complexities of today's uncertain, chaotic world with confidence and clarity. Now tuning into your needs, here's your host and moderator, seasoned executive coach and leadership alchemist, david Craig Utz.

Speaker 2: 0:47

Executives today are under immense pressure. It's not just about working harder or managing stress. It's about feeling like, no matter what you do, it's never enough. The demands keep rising, the expectations keep shifting and the playbook you've relied on for years is not working as well as it once did. And last week's show we had a deep conversation about the unrelenting stress, burnout and leadership fatigue that many executives are facing today, and we heard you. Many of you reached out asking us if we could go a bit deeper into what's driving this core issue, why traditional methods of leadership development and building resilience just aren't working, and to speak more to what it takes to break free, gain the ability to thrive during these times.

Speaker 2: 1:30

So we're making this shift in our programming to meet that request, because this show is about your needs and we want to let you know we're listening. We're the Unfazed Under Fire where we go beyond quick fixes to tackle what really determines leadership success in today's high-pressure world. Our mission is to give you real, unfiltered truth, and I'm joined by two incredible co-hosts Ryan McShane and Anatoly Yakovlev. Ryan is the founder of HR Evolution, a firm that supports, among other things, the development of leadership and helps organizations build high-performing, human-centered cultures. Anatoly is an expert in ethics and compliance and leadership transformation and is a co-creator of the Resilient Leader Method. He has a rare and proven ability to rapidly expand human consciousness that instantly impacts leadership performance. So, as requested, gentlemen, we're taking a deeper dive into the resilience crisis that leaders are facing and to dive deeper into the areas that I just mentioned. So in the last show, you may remember, we talked about a lot of the challenges executives are facing, this unrelenting pressure, constant disruption that they're under.

Speaker 2: 2:30

But before we dive deeper into the shift that leaders really have to make and the real solution, I want us to take a little bit harder look at some of the current methods for developing leaders. That aims to assist them to develop as leaders and deal more effectively with stress, and I want to make sure this is not about throwing leadership consultants and leaders. That aims to assist them to develop as leaders and deal more effectively with stress, and I want to make sure this is not about throwing leadership consultants and trainers and coaches, coaches and other developmental programs under the bus. But the truth is, leaders are still struggling, despite their investment in these resources. It's clear that something fundamental is missing.

Speaker 2: 3:02

So let's take a look at these interventions that leaders engage, one at a time, and at the top of the list is these university executive programs, like from Harvard and other business schools, and those programs are very robust. They provide great frameworks, they sharpen the intellect. They have these acclaimed professors that are leading these robust educational programs that tend to have a strong experiential component to them that puts executives into high-pressure situations to help them promote their growth and apply what they're learning, and they provide an opportunity for executives to learn with and from their peers who are in the program in similar positions. However, organizations spend tens of thousands of dollars on these programs, so what are your thoughts about their limitations, given what executives are dealing with today? Are there any?

Speaker 3: 3:51

Seems to me to be a bit of a regurgitation of what we know, but just at a slightly deeper level and I use the analogy with you, david that everything's evolved and changed except leadership development and the notion of leadership, and so it's like using the VCR in a digital age. We are still operating from antiquated technology and applying it to a new atmosphere and environment that requires advancements in our technical capacity as leaders. I think that kind of framing is helpful to really understand how out of date and how behind we are in terms of what has leadership done over the last 30 years or so to really evolve and keep pace with all the advancements of technology which challenge us on a continuous basis.

Speaker 2: 4:42

Yeah, I want to build off something you said. The profession and all the different modalities that have helped develop leaders have been really good about articulating conceptually what leadership is and also researching what you can do about that from a structural conceptual framework, and that's been a gift. But you know, then you go back into the frame right, Right. So, Anatoly, you've had some experience, I think, at BP, with these things. You know you've seen leaders go through these programs. You have some insights on that.

Speaker 4: 5:12

Okay, I'll start with something.

Speaker 2: 5:16

What's that?

Speaker 4: 5:17

face, I can tell you have an observation to share. First, I think most of these programs have some fundamental flaw which is rooted in the kind of Western Anglo-Saxon culture. The problem is you have to fix it yourself. So people tend to look at this more like if there is something I'm doing or I'm not doing, I should be held accountable for fixing the way I'm doing things, unlike other cultures that provide more overview, like well, don't be that self-centered. You may need help from the community, from the village elders. Look at them, they're chomping at the bits to help you.

Speaker 4: 5:58

So people look at this broadly, whereas the Western culture tends to be like I can do it, yes, I can kind of approach right, so that's where the problem is. So, therefore, people then take the next approach Okay, well, if you look at all the existing methodology, it's all about fixing everything at the mental level Learn more, use some metrics, let's measure this, let's report this, let's do, let's do 360, blah, blah, blah. But it's all mental noise which will never get to the bottom of the problem, which is rooted in subconsciousness, which is rooted in all those layers of conditioning but bringing and what have you? So the light never shines down there. So, therefore, you cannot fix yourself at the mental level using the power of your will, your willpower is not enough to get you reset, restructured, rebuilt, fixed.

Speaker 4: 6:54

Okay, so that's why you know those people who create programs for leaders. I will not use their names, but you will get them. Like you know strobe lights, you know stomping feet, clapping loudly, walking around, talking in a loud voice. Well, it's all just emotional fact meant to impact people. And people think, people being fooled into believing that if they go through some deep emotional turmoil that's a sign of something changing deeply within, which is not the case. So we just have to address that first.

Speaker 4: 7:28

Now, expensive programs that are out there, they also, over time, realize that they need to be moving someplace else. So that's why they started playing with psychedelics and ayahuasca retreats, all this nonsense. They always say like well, that doesn't work for everyone, but maybe one in five or 10 people is guaranteed to have some transcendent experience. But again, it will not take you to a level where you want to go with some level-headed approach. Now, those programs I witnessed a BP executive took back then more than a decade ago. They came back and I usually ask them the the same question tell me three things you learned that was worth all the trouble of traveling, doing all that, and you know they would struggle. They would give me one or two, like okay, now I know I have a hard stop at 6 pm. I go home, I'm not staying until 10 pm doing stuff, pouring over papers. I said, yeah, this is great, this is all you learned from that expensive program.

Speaker 2: 8:30

They had some good meals, they had some brandy with their friends at 8.30 or 9 o'clock at night at the bar, the hotel, etc. They're kind of cushy programs. I mean, obviously, if you're spending that kind of money and it is useful to kind of connect with colleagues. But again, all of this is wonderful, so is vacation, and that's even better compared to this. Maybe the university would say, well, something deeply has changed in them and it'll come out as they do their jobs. I mean, that's maybe what they would say.

Speaker 2: 8:59

But let's look at another one. You know there are more and more what I call resilience first aid courses that people are being invited into and you might do it online. There might be a lot of online practices or you might have a trainer come in and engage even the senior team into helping them and on a positive front, this kind of can help leaders understand the neuroscience that's going on. And then the fight and flight and freeze concept and that's useful, and how to intervene and manage stress, because a lot of it is. It's not about stress, it's about processing stress. So you're going to be under stress as an executive and most executives actually enjoy the stress.

Speaker 2: 9:34

The question is, are you taking care of yourself and cleaning yourself out every day so you could be ready for the next day. So these programs, you know, teach them engaged practices to promote well-being, intercede to so they can intercede to. Oh, I'm getting reactive. Let me cut it off at the pass, right, or I'm going to do more, longer practice. So we spoke a little bit about meditation last week. You know where I'm going to have this regular practice that over time does show positive effects. But the question is, is what happens after these courses, and how long does that stay in a leader's top of mind when they face their next challenging situation?

Speaker 3: 10:12

So, david, what's interesting is I teach you know a number of different leadership courses, as you know, and retention of knowledge and transfer of knowledge is something that I really pay attention to to a great extent, because obviously you know, we can say, oh, this is wonderful. I look at this information that we've discussed today. Within two days, within only two days, you're going to lose about 90% of what we talked about. However, if you continue to look at this information for the next six days, spend 15 to 20 minutes looking at this information, reviewing it, you will then recall about 60% of what we've covered for the next 15 years. So that repetition is important. Ultimately, that's what it takes to really shift you from oh, that's nice, to being able to accumulate that information and start applying it as a part of your new framework in terms of how you operate.

Speaker 3: 11:26

So I think one of the downfalls is lack of reinforcement in many of these programs, and that's where I think coaching is so. Pivotal is to make sure that there's that advancement of the information and it's being applied on a regular and recurring basis, because it's all too alluring and distracting that when we get back into the work environment, oh, I've got those demands again and we basically throw away everything that we just learned in that wonderful executive course. Or we say, well, that doesn't really apply in this environment. Well, it all applies, but you're not thinking about it in the same respect that you did in the classroom environment. So we've got to have attention paid to that transfer of knowledge and an application of that in the environment instead of just conceptually having those kind of conversations. So I think that's a part that plays a factor.

Speaker 2: 12:18

I think that's something probably not a lot of trainers necessarily teach their people when they're leaving a course, which I think is important. That's really a real nugget there that you provided. It comes down to the value the individual, the executive, goes through that program, that they place on that, given what else is going on for them. But it's important that that six-day thing is an important thing. Spend 15 minutes over the next six days, can you do that? And that's up to them, right, but that's a really important thing to know. So, anatoly, any thoughts you have on the idea of resilience training and the blessings and the curses of it, so to speak.

Speaker 4: 12:55

Well, I think that probably with the current work environment, people should be learning from somebody like Navy SEALs or like some rigorous military training, because technically speaking, you're dealing with people in a lot of unpredictable business environments. Your system, your nervous system you may not control yourself the whole time because of the level and the quality and the depth of those challenges. People can snap you know very quickly. But if you go through some boot camp of those training programs that they do, then you definitely can get some value for the resilience, because that level of resilience is meant to be instilled for people to exercise in the muscle memory right, you're doing things over and over again.

Speaker 2: 13:45

Those special forces people, they're on autopilot when something happens. I mean they're training. How have bullets missed them? It's like pretty cool stuff they learn.

Speaker 4: 13:53

Well, look, look, I was raised by special military, special ops, because my dad was in the military and I had so much time to myself. Yeah, pretty cool news.

Speaker 4: 14:05

My dad was in the military and I was, like, had so much time to myself, so I got into martial arts and I was training with them and they were using me just to beat me up and how to train the tricks on me. You know, hey, they didn't treat me any different, even though my dad was a, you know, top brass. So that's how I learned the hard way. When you talk about the muscle memory, the best trick is like you die the first time, then you come back to and then you know, oh, it's not that scary, so you stop being scared. So that's why they kind of practice that on people like you know you drown, they drown you, you come back to life, you know you're okay. They don't even have to resuscitate you. I know that doesn't sound pretty and it doesn't look I know they do that.

Speaker 2: 14:43

They actually die in the training right. They go through the death experience so that they're brought back. I'm trying to imagine senior executives going to a training like that it's the last of them.

Speaker 2: 14:55

Get that key man insurance in place before you go to that training. But I'm also trying to imagine some of my clients going to a boot camp. That is one way. That is definitely one way because it kind of gets to that shift in the consciousness and in the body and in knowing how to deal with things in a very intense way. I think you know probably there's not too many resilience trainings out there that are to that level of rigor. Level of rigor, I think.

Speaker 2: 15:30

Going back to what you said about the deepening that happens when you go to special forces training. I've meditated for 40 years. I enjoy meditation, I find time to connect with myself more deeply, and that is something that is valuable to me. And every once in a while during the day I'll take a mindfulness break. However, I do that Whether it's even going out and feeling the sun on my face or taking a deep breath. It's helpful. So it's not that any of those things are helpful, yet the key challenge I see for them is they don't remove the underlying burden. That goes back to what you're saying about special forces. After a while I can handle anything right. There's something about the underlying traumas or paper cuts we've gotten through our lives or the emotional burdens that we've taken on, that we don't even understand, that are there that these kind of like soften them for a moment, but then you're back in into it, right?

Speaker 3: 16:15

you know, as you share, that there's a statistic that I share with, uh, many of my clients from a training and development standpoint, and I talk about consciousness from this standpoint. Speak to it from the negative, whether we know it or not. They say that about 95% of our waking life is spent unconsciously. And I have to repeat that and say yes, just say that'd be true percent of your waking life is spent unconsciously.

Speaker 3: 16:44

And they're like well, if I'm well, if I'm awake, what do you mean? I'm unconscious. And then I asked them well, how many of you have driven home from work and wondered how the heck did I get here? In other words, we're off somewhere else in La La Contemplating, we're on autopilot, we don't even think about what we're doing, we wonder if we made stops at the stop signs and things like that. But here we are, we're sitting in our driveway at this point and we're like how did we get here? And I think that's something that many of us have experienced.

Speaker 3: 17:15

So that brings to them the notion of that's what he means when we say we spend 95% of our life unconsciously. Well, we're operating from that conditioning, that automaton that you know, just going through the motions, going through the habitual practices that we go through, and we don't, we're not even thinking about. So I love when you're talking about taking those mindfulness breaks and just, you know, really focusing on what's going on in my body right now Can I feel the sun on my face? Those kinds of things. That brings about that conscious moment for you. And I think that for by and large, what we're talking about is a higher order of leadership that is predicated on this model of consciousness where I think most still reside, and this is important for our audience to really recognize where most still reside is they're operating from conditions and habitual thinking, and that really resonates with the fact that we have a situation where a lot of people find themselves in leadership roles but never even have been trained to be leaders.

Speaker 3: 18:19

You know, you talk about people going to these executive conferences and things of that nature. I think those are the rarity. Those are the minority that have even been exposed to leadership development training programs to even contemplate what we're talking about. Many of them have been thrust into these leadership roles. Oh, you're a great individual contributor. Let's put you in charge of other people when they're vastly different skill sets, and then we wonder why they're not successful, and everyone underneath of that person is starting to leave the organization because of how they've been treated. So when we look at that from that standpoint, what's your first exposure to leadership? It's the family dynamic, isn't it? And I don't know about you, but I think most of us have grown up in an authoritarian environment. You know, I heard my dad say one or two times hey, son, it's my way, or the. And so, from that standpoint, if you've not been exposed to different models of leadership, you do what you know, and what you know is where the hell that is.

Speaker 2: 19:18

Right and I see this all the time. I mean I've worked in some developed leaders in some top professional services firms and the ability of autopilot and a highly trained, experienced consultant. They're conditioned to come into a situation that's highly complex, that's confusing the heck out of another organization and they go. You just do this, this, this right. That's it at a positive level. But what you're pointing to is we also bring baggage in to our work life that we haven't resolved and we're building off of models that we just like that, that consultant that spent years developing their prowess to see and their season and they're able to see multiple situations and they spent years from an individual contributor all the way up to a partner in a firm. That's a conditioning that actually serves right. But we also come with that same conditioning that we bring in from our lives and that's a really good point and we want to touch on that when we go into the next phase of this conversation for sure, because that, to me, is what's at the heart of what's keeping people from dealing with the challenges that we're facing today as leaders for sure.

Speaker 2: 20:28

One thing I wanted to also mention is one other modality that we talk about is executive coaching and I think still and then this coaching actually touches on some of these things because it says why are you reacting in a situation like that consistently?

Speaker 2: 20:41

I notice you're doing it here, here and here and it's kind of putting your direct reports on their back heels or it's cutting you off from an opportunity there.

Speaker 2: 20:50

So coaching is an effective way for people to see the playing field clearly, to support them in getting out of their head and directing more effective approaches. It can help them make better decisions. It can provide distinctions, which I think one thing, a coaching thing is how do you see the playing field and relationship of running meetings, of building your team and other ways in a clear way so you're not wasting your time or doing things that are ineffective. So it does all that very, very well and I, of course, I've been doing it for 25 years and enjoy doing it. Yet in the environment we're in today, we are actually running up against a completely different client who's dealing with completely different situations, and I said earlier last week, coaches have been through this crazy time too right, so we're all adjusting as well. How do you see coaching hitting some walls and hitting some limitations right now, the actual modality to help people deal with this increasingly intense environment that executives are in. Any thoughts?

Speaker 4: 21:49

Well, you know, this is interesting because, if you think about reinventing coaching just to get people to tap into what could be offered to them, is a very interesting situation because a lot of coaches, coaching schools and organizations that offer training, they start looking outside because they cannot offer anything at a mental level to help people process and learn something quickly on the fly and then apply it. I mean, with the level of complexity that we're dealing with right now and unpredictability, you cannot do that. Plus, everybody wants this quick fix, instant gratification for anything they can get. Give it to me right now, because I'm entitled to it Because of all the stress and all the crap I'm taking at work. Give it to me right now.

Speaker 4: 22:37

So that's how people feel, because they think, well, if the level of complexity goes up in my work environment, there should be some solutions being created to counter that. And you guys are telling me in my face that you don't have those solutions for me. How is that possible? You can't be just scratching your butt and not doing anything. So you see, this is what I'm hearing from people who say look, there's got to be something. So, therefore, you have this strange tendency now that people saying, well, we have more coaches now who get certified to offer this counseling for the use of psychedelic in the process, because we need to look elsewhere to get people jolted a bit.

Speaker 2: 23:21

And you see trauma-informed coaches coming in.

Speaker 4: 23:23

They're not even looking at that level. They're just looking for something to throw on top of the traditional coaching for people who have a bit of an intense experience. Then you can push down their throat. The traditional coaching for people who have a bit of an intense experience Then you can push down their throat the traditional coaching and then, voila, the issue is solved.

Speaker 4: 23:41

So you know they're looking for ways to combine it, Maybe, like some people say well, maybe you need a bit of like. Become a more like an adrenaline junkie. You start doing something like really borderlineline, and then we'll go from there.

Speaker 2: 23:55

That's a really good point. I mean, when I came out and I said I was a coach, they said what sport? Now it's like everybody's the coach right, and in most cases, you know right, the coaching is relying on intellectual breakthroughs, rather than what we're talking about with special forces, embodied shifts, because there's such a wide range of people that are in coaching right now maybe people that have exited the C-suite that now want to become a coach, for example. They don't think they need training, they're just going to go in and be a mentor. Basically is what they do Tell them how to deal with situations, which could be valuable. Bottom line is I think you have a lot of coaches since 2020 repackaging what they do, like you mentioned, like, okay, let me do psychedelic integration with you. That's important, that's valuable. That'll help you see the world differently and shift your perspective. We have trauma-informed coaches coming out, but then, basically, you're going back. Even though trauma interventions tend to be faster than traditional training and therapy interventions, it's still kind of we've got to take some time to kind of look at this stuff and then you've got to enroll an executive in that, because that's going into sensitive areas, and then there's also a mix of coaches that are varying degrees of their own development, right, so they use AI to regurgitate. Okay, how do I teach this book to my client? There's that level of coaching.

Speaker 2: 25:14

And two, you have executives that have done it, that may not have done a lot of their own personal development, and here they are coaching To coaches out there that I deeply respect, that have done their work and they are a presence on the call with those clients and they grind. You're one of them. I think I put myself in that category. You're trying to create an environment myself in that category. You're trying to create an environment where they can kind of shift and you have done that shift and so you can guide them in that shift.

Speaker 2: 25:43

But depending on the coach a client works with when the engagement is over similar to what you're saying about training, but not maybe as powerful, because there has been some six months, eight, nine months a year working with that coach, so some things have stuck. But it also kind of fades over time and unless they stay in touch with it and that's a lot of times what I spend time on at the end of my engagements, to make sure they're going to spend time on it like you do at the end of all your trainings, ryan, but still does it actually have lasting impact? Is the question. We've talked about these modalities. Any other thoughts on what executives are doing to try to resolve kind of the challenges they're facing in this highly disruptive world? Anything else you want to say about what we've talked about around the methods?

Speaker 3: 26:23

What I think is interesting is and it goes back to what you had said before, david that in our Western culture or just do it society, you know, borrowing a little bit from Nike's branding I think that the answer for most people is do it harder. What Anatoly and you are really explaining to our audience is you can do it harder, all you want, but until you shift your paradigm and your perspective, you just get a sharpened nose. You know, they always say put your nose. Well, all I've gotten from that was a very. You know, I've been told all my life hey, you work hard, everything will work out all right for you. I'm sorry, but that's a very sweetly packaged lie. So you can keep working harder, and harder, and harder, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to get the outcomes that you're looking for.

Speaker 3: 27:14

And I think that that's an awakening moment for many executives to really recognize that. Well, I've had success over here, so it did work a little bit. Well, I've had success over here, but it did work a little bit. We are getting to the point where those successes are going to become fewer and farther, because that working harder just doesn't materialize the kind of results that we're talking about and it really takes that shift that you both are describing, and I think that's the most important thing I want for every listener to take away from. This is doing it harder is not going to change anything at this point in time. We need to really shift our perspective and our paradigm, and that's what I'm most excited about is getting into that space of getting people a taste of that shift, and then they'll see exactly what we're talking about.

Speaker 2: 28:02

So I want to move into that. It's a perfect segue, and what you're saying is segues don't need more tools or they don't need more intellectual understanding or trying to figure things out. They need to shift the way they operate. And what we're talking about is a higher level of consciousness, is what we're pointing to is how leaders process challenges, make decisions and lead under pressure. So, given that, let's revisit that critical distinction. What is consciousness and why is raising it the single most effective way for executives to handle the pressure?

Speaker 2: 28:31

The last show, until you said that consciousness at its core is this resource that's kind of outside our body, different from the intellect, different from physical vitality. It belongs to us and it's something that we can develop and expand. And, as you also noted that there's levels of consciousness as we go up the scale, this brings with it an upgrade in resilience and ability to have impact as a leader. That's one way of viewing it, and there's a more longer articulation on the last show, if you want to go back and listen to that, but I also want to talk about other ways. We can understand what this thing, consciousness is, because again on one level it's really hard to explain.

Speaker 2: 29:10

On another level, it's very easy to experience. So, if you point people in the right direction or we can share a couple of metaphors and ways of looking at this, that can help people get their arms around. What we're saying is the place that makes it easier, not working harder, right? That's what we're getting to with your last comment, so let's talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 4: 29:29

I'll just speak from the perspective that business people relate to. Let's not talk about consciousness and the classic definition, what it's all about? Two things that come from consciousness, Awareness and awareness of a higher purpose, Because a lot of business people they are locked in this everyday rat race, Survive the day to live another day tomorrow, but their when? Is that there's something bigger, there's a bigger personal purpose, and then there is a long-term vision. This concept gives them the right perspective. So I'm aware of what I am inside of me, of my external environment, but the sense of purpose is on the list that business leaders try to attain. Of course they may talk about operational excellence, business continuity, financial results they couldn't care less these days. On top of their list is my mental health, because I am really losing it. I don't want to lose this race, end up in the ditch just because I can't keep it together. So, being aware that there's a bigger purpose, there's a way to get there and have this long-term perspective they can easily relate to. Now. That is a promise and assurance that there is a certain mechanism they use to get there. That should keep them afloat so they can keep pedaling towards that goal.

Speaker 4: 30:55

They don't like hearing lofty words and something like really nice Say, look, how do I get there? Okay, and usually it starts with this first thing trust. Because usually people tell me I trust you, you could get me there. This is the first thing they say to me. There's the Russian one. I say Tassin, like okay, this is the guy I could trust. Okay, let's go there. So consciousness is from their perspective, is to be aware of the challenges, and then there's a road ahead and an idea how to get there.

Speaker 2: 31:26

Well, one of the avenues for consciousness is a leader's attention, which is their primary resource, right? How do they focus their attention and what things, and when do they have the choice, or don't have the choice. What to focus on?

Speaker 2: 31:38

Going back to special forces, which is a great metaphor when they're in a situation, they know exactly what to focus on, and it's autopilot. It's autopilot in the sense that they're attentive to it. The autopilot is not autopilot, because that's the dangerous thing when they go into their missions, but autopilot is. Bring my focus back to my attention and you know, I think you're speaking to that Like, how are they ensuring they're focusing on the right things? How can they get that in a way that they're moving the cheese every day?

Speaker 3: 32:16

You know, a Zen master once used this tactic to bring about presence and consciousness in his students by asking the very simple question to all of his students what is missing in this moment? And as the students sat there and were like, hmm, missing, what's missing, what's missing? And ultimately they recognize that what's missing is their presence, that they're constantly thinking about the next thing. And I think that that's a slippery slope that many leaders find themselves in. I can certainly recognize myself in that paradigm that, you know, it's always on to the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. And so how present are we and how focused are we and how self-aware are we? Therefore marshalling and bringing in our full consciousness to an experience? We cannot do that when we're always on to the next thing. So I hope that illustration is helpful for the audience as well.

Speaker 2: 33:06

It is. It goes back to what you're saying 95% of the time we're unconscious, so we think when we're thinking about the next thing that we're conscious, and we are some degree of consciousness there because we're thinking about the next thing, but when we're not bringing itself, bringing ourselves back to the presence, now this goes back to the challenge. How do executives constantly remind them they don't want to do that? So how do they do that? Automatically? It goes back to special forces training, right? How do they do that? So they're just present.

Speaker 2: 33:29

See, this is the capacity of human beings to just be present and not be distracted and not be unconscious as possible. And when you get to that level, the whole game of leadership changes. We always talk about there's only thing that you can do about. Anything is now, and that's maddening. When you think about it, I guess I get mad at that, like I don't. Well, yeah, well, so what, right? Well, if you're already in the now and you're always present to the now, you don't have to worry about that anymore because you're just there.

Speaker 2: 33:57

And the idea that we can operate and still bring in our sophisticated experience and knowledge and intellect and bring it into the moment and focus it and garner the support and have the right conversation at the right time and trust what's going to happen next. Goes back to trust right Learning how to trust that what's going to happen next. Follow through, coach our people. All that can happen in presence. But again, as you say, anatoly skaters don't have time for all that fluffy talk. But that's at the core of it. Let's get to at the core of it. What's the practical impact of a higher level of consciousness? We talked a little bit about this in the last show, but I think we need to do a little more digging what does developing my consciousness and being more consistently, not unconscious as you pointed to it.

Speaker 2: 34:43

Brian. What is the value of that? Just to kind of put an exclamation point on this part of the show.

Speaker 4: 34:48

Okay, I will explain it in a very simple way. We talked about like people, like talking about being in some altered state. This is an idea like oh, if I experience that whether with the use of psychedelics or doing something else, it doesn't matter, If I only experience that it means I get a perspective and I get my consciousness expanded. This is where 90% of people get stuck, because they believe that once they experience that bliss or that moment or some epiphany, right, ineffable moment, and then that means that, okay, this is it, I'm on top of the world. Now I will operate from that perspective. This is where the fallacy is. You always fall back where you were, regardless of the depth of the experience. Now, lots of ways to experience that, but unfortunately you still have to roll back and build from there.

Speaker 4: 35:41

Now, a high level of consciousness is a different story. It's like you experience something and you get to keep it. You get to own your results. That's huge, it's a game changer. You get to own your results. Whatever you experience, you take it to another day and it stays with you. That means because you are on a different level of consciousness than where you were yesterday. You see what I'm saying. That's why there's a huge difference between having experienced some magical moments yeah, but you can't take it to the bank, Whereas the high state of consciousness, or high level of consciousness, okay, you have your experience and you get to own it.

Speaker 4: 36:22

So that's why it appeals to business leaders, because they know that they could take it home and they can build off it and they could integrate it in their practice on a daily basis. So that's what it is, and you know definitely a lot of people who look at this. They say, yeah, I know what you're talking about, but there's nothing that can get you there. Only if you persevere. You meditate, you spend in mindfulness, being grateful, you journal, you jog, you exercise your body, being grateful, you journal, you jog, you exercise your body, your mind, you do some breath work, you just being consistent year after year. That's going to raise your consciousness, yes, but it's going to be happening very slowly, very slowly. You will not be able to see results. It's like you take yoga classes you can't get yourself in a pretzel after two weeks. I mean you can't. Your body will never allow you to do that it takes years to develop.

Speaker 4: 37:21

Yeah, well, it takes years. That's exactly it. So that's why you know we're talking about this. It's like, okay, let's look around. There's nothing that can get you to a high level of consciousness without some deep internal change that could be catalyzed by something outside of your existence. So, yes, there are certain. Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 37:44

No, I was just saying that what I like about this is like all those other things we talked about, maybe, except with the exception of coaching you're trying to get something from the outside and bring it into you to make your life better. When you're basically saying you have ownership over the capacity to do that, regardless of the length of time it takes, you can control that through discipline. Whether you go through a boot to camp for special forces, get it embodied quickly because they're building their consciousness. That's what they're doing, that's they're, they're, they're, they're. They're focusing on the operating system so that it could be kind of invincible and impenetrable in intense situations. That's the development of consciousness, yes, and they're developing abilities along with that, because abilities come as your consciousness is raised. You can see there's more resources available to us, but the bottom line is is you have the ability to take charge of developing that, those capacities in yourself and the other thing as the consciousness rises, giving the stressors, executors, are how does that help?

Speaker 2: 38:44

process stress more effectively, because it really isn't about the stress, it's about processing stress. So, as you expand in your consciousness, what does it have to do with processing stress more effectively?

Speaker 4: 38:53

Well, it's not only stress, because, you see, with the expansion of your consciousness, with the elevation of your consciousness, you raise yourself on multiple levels, because you know stress could be multifaceted. It's not just an interpersonal relationship strained because at work you do something or you have partners out there. No, no, the idea is that at a higher level of consciousness, you get upgraded, neurally upgraded. It's more like a biohack that your energy goes up, productivity goes up, performance goes up, mental clarity goes up, everything that you need to have your focus, mental sharpness, all of that goes up. So therefore, when you start talking about the level of stress, you are dealing with that stress at a totally different level. So it's not just only like your resilience goes up, you experience dealing with that stress at a totally different level. So it's not just only like your resilience goes up, but you experience the spike and you feel more resilient towards the stress. No, no, you are boarded up and you take yourself to a totally different level.

Speaker 4: 39:52

So that's why one of my clients who used this term invincibility she was a cop and she said look, I feel invincible, that's what it gives me Because she looked at her situation at work, risking her life every day. She said look, that's what I need, that's what it gives me. She didn't want to dig into which element and why all that happened. She said can I own it? Can I take it home please? I said, yeah, it's yours, I cannot take it away from you.

Speaker 2: 40:25

Let's recap kind of where we've been and where we are. So at this point frame that leadership burnout and turnover at all time highs. But the real issue isn't stress, it's about processing or dealing with it in a different way, by owning this part of you and we've talked about the lack of processing of stress comes from an understanding of neuroscience and research that shows that chronic stress kind of rewires the brain pairs of executive function and creativity and emotional regulation and it makes it harder for leaders to make sound decisions. The increased pressure that's coming from trying to process the stress from day to day is getting to people. But at your point I think there is 44% of executives are struggling with mental health issues McKinsey Report just recently found out and that's affecting the decision-making and their performance. And then we have C-suite turnover. That's happening. Leaders are so overwhelmed that they're exiting. Last year 1,500 CEOs left their jobs.

Speaker 3: 41:15

The year before 39% of CEOs left their jobs.

Speaker 2: 41:19

Executives who remain with the same mindset we're saying will continue down the burnout path. It's happening. What's going to change it? Traditional stress management tools only treat the symptoms and you've got to practice it for years. We don't even know what three years from now is going to look like and what's been changing right. So if we even executives that learn engagementage Itals, they find it challenging to consistently engage them. So raising consciousness eliminates the root cause. That's what we're saying, that's what we came to in this last section. And stress is no longer owns the leader. They're in charge of the perception shift. So what I want to do now is revisit this resilient leader method, which is a solution that works 100% of the time. And, as we noted last week, the Resilient Leader Method is co-created by Anatoly. I mean, I was very honored to be able to do this with him. It isn't a leadership program.

Speaker 2: 42:09

It's a fundamental reset that shifts some of the things that Anatoly is just talking to in the executive's consciousness, with those benefits allowing him to operate in this new state of resilience, clarity, power, invincibility and, as research shows, our stages of leadership are a shift in consciousness and so it engages at a higher level. So I want to talk a little bit about a client of mine that I thought it'd be good to share a story. So I want to share a story of Amy, one of my clients who engaged the method, and when I first met her, she had just stepped into a new role as CFO of a fast-growing high-tech company. Now Amy was really sharp, strategic, had a reputation for building high-performing teams. From the start, it was clear that she was an exceptional leader. This is the people I love to work with. They're already exceptional leaders because they're the most ones that are usually hungry to grow and develop. That's why I love working with them. And she was respected by her colleagues and the CEO. They went through a lot of great efforts to pull her into the organization. The CEO met her and knew right away you need to be my CFO. That's the kind of person she was. So we worked together on her onboarding into the organization and she thrived in her role. She strengthened her team, refined financial strategies and processes that made a real meaningful impact on the organization. The CEO quite frankly saw her as his successor. That's kind of why he wanted to bring her in. But he said Amy, you have to figure out some things. There's something in your executive presence and there's a little bit of lack of confidence that you have to work on, and I need to see that you can go toe to toe with the board when you need to. And so that's what I introduced her to the resilient leader method. She was willing to take a leap and the transformation was undeniable.

Speaker 2: 43:47

Immediately, amy noticed a shift. She felt a surge of energy, heightened focus, renewed sense of creativity. She talked about the energy Like I just feel all this energy and capacity and clarity, and she would talk about it over and over on our post-reset calls, and work also no longer felt like a grind, going to your point. It just didn't feel the same way anymore. She was moving through her days with ease. Her interactions with her team were more fluid, more engaging, and even at home she was more present with her kids. I know a lot of senior executives that go home and they said I have a hard time getting my day out of my head. I'm still focused on my day and what's going on. But she found that she was able to just be present with her family when she went home. Another challenge she had is she couldn't sleep through the night. She slept like a baby after this. So then weeks later, after delivering a major board presentation following the reset, her CEO just pulled her to the side and said I don't know what you've been doing, but after seeing you present today, I can see you're ready to go. And shortly after she was promoted to COO and of January this year she's now officially in the CEO role. So she raised her game in a massive way, not just because she's learned new leadership tactics, because she unlocked this resilience, took charge somehow of this consciousness in her to gain this clarity presence that was already inside her all the time, which is, to your point, earlier Anatoly. And this is a typical result. This is not just happens with every third executive we put through this process. Every executive has a similar experience of that result.

Speaker 2: 45:22

I wanted to share that story because I just thought it would bring it together, but here's what I would be thinking. I'd be thinking to the audience like, okay, she didn't go to some long training, she didn't work for years to meditate, she didn't consciously figure out how to root out whatever was limiting her to get to that next level of confidence and ability to be in the moment with people that sometimes she had would go on her back of her heels up. This happened like this. That sounds awfully suspicious to me. I mean, that's immediate. How could she have shifted her behaviors in such a dramatic way? I want to ask you, kathleen so okay, you know you go in and do these two one-hour sessions of reset. That's all it takes two one-hour sessions. Maybe they're a little longer sessions depending on the client, but it's within a few days. You're now in this new state of consciousness, new state of clarity, new state of resilience. How could it happen that fast?

Speaker 4: 46:18

Well, think about the stuff that everybody talks about neuroplasticity. If you want to develop a new skill, you work at it and your brain gets rewired to accommodate that new skill. Okay, usually it takes a long time to develop it. Well, think about the reset as being this instant neuroplasticity to rewire your brain to be in the most optimal state. And it happens in a very consecutive manner First you get this rewired, then you get that rewired. No, it just goes across the board, across your hard drive.

Speaker 4: 46:53

So that's why I was looking for a term, a scientific term that would explain it better, and it goes as a functional synaptic plasticity and specifically it's called compensatory masquerade. It's a very fancy term, don't ask me, but it's the response of the brain to any external stimuli to quickly rewire and be prepared to deal with your environment in a completely new way. So this is the best part. Like you said, david, it's all inside of us, so we don't have to learn anything. We just have to be exposed to something that causes us to instantly and quickly rebuild and rewire ourselves, and then we have all our goodies made available to us.

Speaker 2: 47:44

So what you're saying is that that form of Amy was already in her, that there was something maybe layered on top of that that was hesitating. And I think a lot of other clients say you know, I feel like I realize after the reset I've had breaks on most of my life, and when the breaks come off, really that happens More of the true self of that person comes forward with all their capabilities, their experience. As I said, she already had the chops right to do this, and so that just came forward more and allowed her to engage more effectively. There's this excitement that comes for the clients too. There's this kind of all of a sudden goes back to your idea of purpose. There's sense of I have something to do here that's beyond just my job and my role. So I want to talk a little bit about the value of the coaching too. Why coaching post-reset versus pre-reset? We talked about coaching being a really good modality. In general, I'm a fan of coaching, but there's all kinds of challenges with it that we also mentioned earlier.

Speaker 2: 48:50

Post-reset, imagine being a coach working with somebody that's now at the top of their game. Yet they haven't been at the top of their game prior to the reset, so it's almost like they're living in a new territory and they have all this energy, all this excitement. One of the first things I do with them is really revisit their purpose, their vision, their leadership brand. What is the field of play you want to play in? What are the sidelines and the yard markers and how do you want to focus this energy to? I remember Brandon totally has to do that with me. Every once in a while I get a little too ahead of myself. I just can't focus right. So coaching helps them sharpen what game they want to play, Because now the field is completely open. They can do whatever they want, based on their passion and their skill and their experience. Now, what is it that you want to frame? Because, again, you're in charge. I love that You're in charge of this. So take responsibility for these new abilities that you have and this new invincibility you have.

Speaker 2: 49:45

That's a lot of what the coaching does, and after the reset people have to be reminded of what they got. It's kind of like the six days of 15 minutes. You have to have a period of months following the reset to have your mind, which is still has some of the programming in it, even though it's unhooked for the nervous system, so you don't react. But there's still ways of thinking that you have to kind of nope, let's see. If that's true, they'll say that old confidence thing came back to me today, david, so let's revisit that. Is that really there? And they'll go? Well, it's. It came up and up as a thought, but it's not in my body anymore. The reaction is not there. Oh, I can let it go. It's kind of like that.

Speaker 3: 50:25

You're talking so much is coming to me. One of the most epiphanal moments I had in my life was early on in college, and I remember thinking this thought of to define it is to limit it, and those definitions of what we believe ourselves to be ultimately become our identity, and when you have a limited identity of who you are, those are the retarders, the buffers, the things that hold us back. I'm a young Irish kid and, based on my definition and perspective of who a young Irish kid is, that's who I am and so that's how I operate. And what you're talking about is redefining the identity in some respects, absolutely Well said. We're stepping back from that notion of who we are to almost be limitless, and that's the field of consciousness that I think Anatoly is talking about as well. Is we get to tap into that once we stop seeing ourselves as this limitation of who we've defined ourselves to be within our identity. So what would I be if not Ryan? And I think that very question in and of itself immediately expands my consciousness.

Speaker 2: 51:35

Exactly, exactly, I mean. The framing of identity is the most powerful way to frame our attention. I've been at a search for something like this for 20 plus years.

Speaker 2: 51:46

And I'm not professing this on the podcast because I'm just trying to sell a product or service here. This is a game changer, the biggest game changer I've ever seen. If everybody's familiar with the Enneagram of the nine types one of the things we've seen from people that have been through this process go towards. For those people out there that know the Enneagram system, they automatically shift to their integration type. That is another proof that this works, because I've seen people like that are you know, eights that have to have more softer two energy in them, do it, they get it.

Speaker 2: 52:18

Or the high achievers that recognize it's not just about me, it's about the team. And they make that shift and then they become this like, rather than being this achiever, that's always hey, it's about me. Look at me over here, I'm making all this stuff happen. Now it's like how do we make sure we get this done for the organization? And then they bring that achievement orientation into their job in a more focused way and they make it about the team, which is a beautiful mixture. Any other thoughts about that?

Speaker 4: 52:45

Yeah, Can I just make a comment? Sure? Why coaching is also important is because there's definitely a great degree of mind resistance. So because if you get rewired neurally inside out, your mind is screaming mercy, Like, oh, what's this in me? You know, I have all these extra powers. How do I wrap my head around what I've got? And that's causing this identity crisis, Because I used to be this Irish kid right, and now I'm somebody else. Right Now I'm like supercharged.

Speaker 4: 53:20

So this is the problem, because during that transition, people need help. They need to really take that time and say look, let's revisit where you have experienced your massive gains. Okay, you've got your creativity boosted. You don't need your you know sleeping pills anymore. You know, you've got this increased joy, this kind of bubbly, giggly state. You're so happy, You're on top of your game, right? So let's reframe it. What's going on? You're not running like a headless chicken.

Speaker 4: 53:49

The mind keeps going back to the old paradigm of the previous personality form. Well, your identity used to be that, but you feel different now. You don't fit that mold anymore. So that's why the mind is the one. There's this silent sabotage happening at the back of your mind. No, no, no, no. I know you have got the chops, you have the power, you have the energy to do this or this, but are you sure, Are you really sure, that you want to do this? So that's why you need the support to stabilize and integrate all these changes at the right time, at the right level, so that you're really fully in charge of what you've got. And the other thing is about the coaching is well.

Speaker 2: 54:33

you may want to extend and continue the coaching because it's enjoyable and it's helping you. Three months is pretty much what you need to help integrate. Enjoyable and it's helping you. Three months is pretty much what you need to help integrate. So you know the investment of an organization in this is far less than those business schools, for sure, but you know it's also a very efficient way of operating. So well. I appreciate all that.

Speaker 2: 54:54

And again to our listeners, you know this is kind of the resilient leadership method. You can think of it. As a sponsor for our show and because I really want people to know about this, it could be challenging to kind of share this with people and get them to purchase it, because the mind doesn't know how to compute how this could happen in such a short period of time and we've gotten all these great promises and guarantees and all these big offers out there that we've done before that we might have been disappointed with after we purchased them and all those kinds of things. But I really appreciate the people that have done it and we have a lot of testimonials that we can share and people that you could talk to and also have a conversation with Anatoly as well, if that's something you feel interested in. So any parting words for you, gentlemen, today, that you just want to leave us with before we close the show.

Speaker 3: 55:44

I think that, to put a real fine point on it, I was contemplating this show last night as I was laying in bed before I dozed off to sleep.

Speaker 2: 55:49

I love that you got prepared Novel idea, isn't it?

Speaker 3: 55:52

And so what keeps coming up for me, or what came up for me in that moment as I thought about it, was this idea of a fish discovers water, and I don't know if you've ever heard that kind of thinking before, but I think that's really relevant to what we're talking about and puts it in the context of, I think, what we're exposed to and how we can kind of zoom out and see ourselves as that fish in the water that recognizes that, yes, we are surrounded by water.

Speaker 3: 56:20

That, for me, just saying a fish discovers water in my mind, puts me in that consciousness state that I need to be to really have these kind of conversations with you at an effective level. So I share that with your audience. A fish discovers water and hopefully that does something for you. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 56:39

And you can't survive without it. Fish can't survive without it, fish can't survive without it. That's another thing. Yeah, antonio, any final thoughts from you?

Speaker 4: 56:47

Yeah, well, it's a great discovery that we are talking about so many points, because usually people are not really too keen to watch just one person talking. But having provided different angles and especially since, ryan, you haven't gone through the reset it provides a very unique, fresh perspective. So therefore it's pretty important Now for me, since I'm coming from the International Business Ethics and Compliance practitioner and I used to be getting enough flair with me delivering what I used to do with this gift that I have within the context of what I was doing. But even then I was single now for that and I was always promoted to be a speaker at conferences, but then I kind of always felt this is not the direction I should be going. So now we are more focused on what could be done to take this whole leadership development to a whole new level, and it kind of saddens me that we are the only ones sticking out as a sore thumb. So it's not like we have too much competition. We should be having competition.

Speaker 4: 57:54

You know school fish are in the water and we're competing with them Because that would be fair.

Speaker 2: 58:01

Yeah, it'd be great. Well, hopefully, well, maybe, this will spark other new modalities out there that are fast and can help executives in the same way. Well, I really want to thank you, gentlemen, for being here on the show today. We covered a lot of ground today. We really tackled the core issue behind leadership development and why traditional approaches are falling apart. We've explored why raising consciousness is the game changer that allows executives to not only survive but thrive in today's environment, and we've shared how the resilient leader method is transforming leaders instantly, shifting them from doubt to overload and to confidence, resilience and clarity.

Speaker 2: 58:41

Now, as we continue this journey on the podcast, our focus remains on real solutions for executives who are aiming high and desire to perform at the highest levels of leadership In a world that demands more than just strategy and execution. Mastering resilience, clarity and influence is what sets exceptional leaders apart from others. Until then, remember this you're not at the mercy of your stress, you're not bound to outdated leadership models. The power to lead with clarity, conviction and unstoppable resilience is within you right now and you can discover it and release it. And if today's conversation resonated for you and you're ready to explore how to lead with greater confidence, clarity and resilience. I invite you to reach out. Let's have a quick, no-pressure conversation about how the resilient leader method can help you become invincible in the face of today's uncertainty. The question is are you ready to step into it? If you are, we're here. In the meantime. Stay bold, stay focused, stay unfazed under fire. This is David Craig-Utz, a leadership alchemist, signing off for now. Have a great rest of your day.