Speaker 1: 0:11

Welcome to Unphased Under Fire, a podcast designed to elevate your leadership and amplify your impact. Each episode offers valuable insights to help you transform your vision into reality, cultivate high-performing cultures that attract top talents, and navigate the complexities of today's uncertain, chaotic world with confidence and clarity. Now tuning into your needs, here's your host and moderator, seasoned executive coach and leadership alchemist, david Craig Utz.

Speaker 2: 0:46

So they say, culture eats strategy for breakfast. Well, what's fueling culture? What's supporting us to create these environments that are empowering and that encourages the best to come out in others in service to your priorities? It's trust, collaboration and alignment, and in today's environment of disruption, rapid change and rising complexity, these qualities seem harder and harder to come by. Welcome to Unfaced Under Fire, the show that challenges the conventional thinking about leadership, its development, and it helps executives harness disruption to expand impact, ignite innovation and build workplaces we believe in. I'm your primary host and moderator, david Craig Hudson.

Speaker 2: 1:27

In today's episode, we're diving into topics that seem to be deteriorating during these times, but impossible to succeed without strong trust and collaboration. So let me ask you what's at the core of creating trust and collaboration? It's not just integrity, it's not just consistency, it's the quality of our connections and the conversations we have with others, because when our conversations are transactional, rushed or reactive, trust withers, but when they're intentional, present and connecting, both trust and collaboration become inevitable. Again, we're going to explore this through the lens of the authentic, courageous leadership system applied, which empowers executives to embody the competencies required to thrive in today's disruptive world. The authentic, courageous leadership system isn't just a list of qualities. It's an interactive system that helps you rise in consciousness, engage in high-value interactions and create the conditions where trust and high performance naturally emerge.

Speaker 2: 2:27

Before we dive in, let me offer a quick reminder about the framework that we're using to contain this series of conversations. If you're watching, you'll now see this model that I introduced in the last episode. If you're listening, you can imagine a circular model, and at the center of the model is executive presence that touches all of the competencies, and surrounding this circle of executive presence are the companies that are sharpening focus, engaging collaboratively, building tight alignment, ensuring high-quality execution and continuously innovating. This model provides a grounded structure and intention for executives to thrive in today's disruptive world, and it works in tandem with the transformational power of the resilient leader method, which we've talked about that helps leaders ignite greater potential that exists within them.

Speaker 2: 3:18

So today we'll move on from executive focus, which we emphasized last week, and focus on enhancing collaboration, ensuring alignment. Now it's important to note that these stages are iterative, meaning that each stage sets the stage for the next. So while today we'll be emphasizing collaboration and alignment, your impact in these areas will suffer if you're not fully present and in control of your attention and your focus is not sharp Again. Joining me today are my co-host, ryan McShane, principal of HR Evolution, and then totally my partner in the co-creation of the Resilient Leader Method. So let's kind of dive in.

Speaker 2: 3:59

On last show, we discussed how today's disruptions are muddying the executive's ability to take charge of how they engage their attention and focus, and the implication for this is that it leads to a trust breakdown. This places a kink in communication. People hedge, silos, kind of harden assumptions, flourish, which leads to confusion and breakdowns. Thus the very collaboration that fuels innovation becomes really impossible. So, given that, start with a question you know how are getting back to these disruptive times I were in. How are these creating this breakdown in trust and how does this breakdown impact an organization's ability and the executive's ability to forward what they care most about, which is their vision and their priorities?

Speaker 3: 4:42

care most about, which is their vision and their priorities.

Speaker 3: 4:47

You know, david, I think we touched on in prior episodes where we talked about Maslow's hierarchy of needs and the survival mode, and we mentioned that most people were really operating in that survival mode.

Speaker 3: 4:54

And when you are, you're also in self-protection mode, so anything outside of you is deemed as a potential attack or something you want to protect yourself from. So in that state of being, you're not creating, you're not developing relationships, you're not even open to problem solving, and those kinds of things are necessary qualities to really move and transform an organization forward. So I think the big question then becomes why am I in survival mode and what can I do about that? You've talked about the conditions that create the environment that we're in right now, and it really is that mass complexity, massive change, technological advancements and things of that nature, and people are just hanging on by their fingertips. As a result of that, it's created that response, and when people are in survival mode, they're not going to stick out their head for fear to be chopped off. So I think that's a big part of why we're dealing with what we're dealing with.

Speaker 2: 5:56

Yeah, absolutely, and the executive's primary emphasis and what they're really paid for is to facilitate conversations more than anything else, and when you're entering those conversations distracted, so it's hard to take focus and listen to other people, right? So it's a really good point. Any thoughts from you? Anatoly?

Speaker 4: 6:15

Well, let's put it this way what we're having today in this world is completely unprecedented. It's completely unprecedented Societal pressures, political, geopolitical, economic. So just 10 years ago, executives were managing this more or less. When it comes to trust, fake it until you make it right. Yeah, you can emulate trust. You know schmooze flesh, flash a smile, you know things work.

Speaker 4: 6:46

I had this conversation with executives many times how they bluff their way through to create a perception of having trust beyond transactional. But you can simulate it, you can fake it, you can get away with it. But this time is different. Things have piled up on multiple levels and you can't blunder your way through anymore and kind of say, look, hey, like we're still friends and all that. Nothing works because we have our tension has been milked, it's all gone. We have no resilience left to carry on with fake facades and fake stories anymore, and this is something that executives don't understand. They know they take a step, but there's void under their feet or they don't understand. Why is that? It's not working. A conversation by a water cooler doesn't work. Schmoozing with colleagues doesn't work. Taking people for team building out their employees, direct reports nothing works.

Speaker 4: 7:47

So when you mentioned the survival mode, let's address the trends that we are currently wrestling with. The great resignation 2.0. Everybody pretends they're working, but everybody's detached Leads to the great detachment 1.0. Everybody seems to be engaged, but that leads to the quiet quitting 1.0. Everybody's looking for a way out. What's my next job? How can I pay my bills? Screw the boss, screw the logo, screw the brand, screw the capital, their reputation I don't care, I am drowning in this quicksand. There's nobody out there to help me, Not the public institutions, not presidents. Whatever's going on is like people don't feel they actually have something to use as a foundational element for them to carry forward. I think we need to address that first.

Speaker 2: 8:43

That's what we're having today. Peter, you pointed to like team building exercises, and a couple of weeks ago we're talking about these peak experiences that we're looking for and that they don't last. You don't really own the results afterwards, right, and I think almost those team building exercises can be seen as a way to intervene, make people feel better for a short period of time, to feel connected, but then you walk back in the workplace and it all falls apart again.

Speaker 2: 9:10

So it doesn't last, because there's something that's not being consistent. We'll touch on that a little bit later. The executive's job is not to build buddy-buddy with those people that report to them. Yet there's still. The nature of relationship still applies at work. As human beings, one of our primary draws is connection. It's the most natural thing for human beings and somehow we kind of compartmentalize that when we go to work. We got to get stuff done and of course we have to get stuff done. But what's the cost of this from a point of view to the people that report to you, If they begin to see this inconsistency and maybe begin to start doubting your intentions, what's the cost to those people that report to you the talent that you spent a long time to bring in? You have this great talented group of people and they're not trusting your intentions and they're having this up and down kind of experience with you. How does that affect them?

Speaker 3: 10:06

I often talk about this, david, from an engagement versus disengagement standpoint and when you have the majority of your population and latest statistics say 60 to 70 percent of the total workforce are disengaged, meaning they're only just doing enough to get by without getting in trouble and still collect a paycheck. So from an employer and business perspective, the employer is not getting what they're paying for. You know they're paying these nice high salaries for all this talent to contribute, but this talent is literally doing the minimum and that's consequential, obviously from a productivity and business development standpoint. Obviously from a productivity and business development standpoint. So I think that's the real issue is engagement is critical to get the return on investment by employers into their talent, and so that needs to be a primary focus. And you don't have engagement without trust.

Speaker 2: 10:57

To your point, let's say an executive is crystal clear on their vision and their strategy, but there's a breakdown of trust. What's the implications of that? I'm clear where we're going. We have spent time in the senior leadership team getting clear on our strategy for deploying it. Okay, team, let's go. What's the impact on that clarity? You might have, excitement you might even have for that. What's the impact on that?

Speaker 3: 11:21

Well, the question becomes then, David, if people buy into that vision, are they involved and engaged in that vision? That's one thing for someone else to have a great vision and espouse it on a regular and recurring basis, but if people don't feel connected to that vision and see how their role contributes to advancing that vision, then it's all a moat point.

Speaker 4: 11:42

I think I'll just go deeper than that if you just indulge me for a second. So basically, you guys are looking at the surface. Right, let's scratch the surface. Why is that we're having this problem? Because all those fancy words trust, integrity, blah, blah, blah. Let's face it. The definition of these terms have been hollowed out ideologically over the past 20 years. There are no definitions left to communicate with anyone. This is the reason I left my profession of business, ethics and compliance because they swam like left so much. They brought so much ideology to replace ethics and values. I just felt like I was drowning in that. So I thought like I don't want to be part of that anymore. So that's one thing. Number two those trends.

Speaker 4: 12:33

I mentioned the great detachment 1.0. Why is it people feel they want to be detached, like you were talking about, right Disengagement? It's actually just a fancy way to say detachment, because if you say disengagement, it's actually just a fancy way to say detachment. Because if you say disengagement it's like on a lower level, but detachment is like the idea is, why is that people are doing that? Because right at the heart of it is the fact that they want to preserve their personal well-being by detaching themselves from all this stuff that's going on at work.

Speaker 4: 13:04

They have trouble at home, trouble on the streets, trouble at work. There's no way to hide from any of that. So people understand that there's nothing left. So they have to turn inwardly and detach themselves from all this nonsense at work. Pleasing colleagues, pleasing bosses, like you said, right, absolutely, get done enough to get by because there's nothing else left. And it's not unfair to actually have managers and executives solve the world's problems, to switch those poor employees back on and get them engaged, because they're not paid to do that and they don't know how, right. So this is where we are at the moment.

Speaker 2: 13:49

You really think that people are checking out in that way, I mean at that level of an organization. You would think that the senior leadership team, for example, is on it. They want to move forward, they've got the pressure on, they've got to generate results for the board. So what would you say to that? At what level does it operate? Kind of at a subconscious level. Is it a conscious thing? I don't see that at the surface for my clients. They're coming to the conversation trying to move things forward and want to move things forward. Is it more in the trenches when that happens?

Speaker 3: 14:21

I'm going to respond to your question in kind of a circuitous way. It more in the trenches when that happens. I'm going to respond to your question in kind of a circuitous way. It really comes down to do. You have to attend to the being to get the doing and, as Anatoly said, I don't think many of these leaders know how to do that. It comes down to people, processes and systems and these leaders have been well-trained around the processes and systems but are detached from the people component. Yeah, they might be gregarious and they might be charismatic, but do they really know how to develop trust and influence others? And then do we have a cascade of leaders underneath of that executive who know how to carry forward that positive influence for increasing that engagement and alignment in individual roles to the organizational vision and mission?

Speaker 2: 15:06

And that's the real gap that we're dealing with Now, that we kind of set the stage for what is happening and the disruption, that we talked a little bit more about the core principles of engaging others. Well, because we kind of need a map of that that what's going to help you move forward your priorities? Here's a reality many executives miss. Your job isn't to have all the answers right and I think a lot of times you feel pressured because a lot of times you come as a finance VP or a CFO or COO. You're coming from a field of expertise where you were the expert and it takes a while to kind of let that go and step into leadership. There's a transition period for those that do that. And I say this to my clients all the time.

Speaker 2: 15:48

The focus of your job is to facilitate high-value conversations or interactions that lead to shared understanding and alignment about what needs to be done, and to then develop commitments that are solid. Everybody knows what are the conditions we satisfy this commitment. On what assumptions are we considering that might get in this way, that we haven't thinking about in this commitment? When do we have to get this done by? Et cetera, and that's the executive's job is to have the conversations, a deepened understanding, strengthen alignment, create commitments so that execution can be delivered at a high level.

Speaker 2: 16:28

But here's the trap when we walk into these moments in autopilot as we just mentioned reactive, agenda-driven, sometimes emotionally hijacked, and wonder why outcomes fall apart. That's what we want to talk about. What are the fundamental principles for building trust, especially in these times? What do we have to do and how do we have to be as an executive to facilitate high value interactions with people, because trust and mutual respect are the foundations for everything? And then we have to engage in interactions with people that are creating that clarity of alignment. So what are some principles we have to keep in mind around that?

Speaker 3: 17:11

human resources, because when you really think about what is a resource, it's typically something that's consumed and used up until it has no value and then it's discarded, and you know if that's a part of the vernacular that seeps into our consciousness in terms of how we interact and relate to one another.

Speaker 3: 17:39

So it's no wonder that we operate very transactionally instead of relationally. I would love to see the profession shift the terminology to human asset, because what is an asset? It's something that you want to continue to grow and build in value over a period of time. So if we started seeing each other as assets, I think that would really change how we interact and we would be much more relational. So we have to start seeing each other as human beings I know that's a novel idea instead of just a tool to get the job done or meet the goal that I have intended. I think that's a big part of it and it kind of is very fundamental to how we interact and relate to one another. So we've got to get those kind of things right in order to really elevate the alignment that you're talking about.

Speaker 2: 18:31

If we were to look at our personal relationships, we certainly see our loved ones and our friends as assets in our life, and the same principles that we apply in those situations are the same ones we apply at work. There's a different level of intimacy, there's a different relationship, if you will, but the same principles apply. You know, if you meet a friend for a drink or a cup of coffee before you go to a movie and you haven't seen them for a while.

Speaker 2: 19:05

You can take some time to see how they've been doing. What have you been up to? I'm curious.

Speaker 1: 19:10

I'm actually interested in having that conversation with you At the end of the day we're going to try to co-create an experience for ourselves that we both would enjoy.

Speaker 2: 19:20

And I might have to give in a little bit to do that. I might have wanted to see the latest action movie and you want to see romantic comedy?

Speaker 2: 19:28

Well, we've got to figure out a way to bridge that gap right. The same principles apply, obviously to a different level of intimacy when we engage others at work. Human connection and relationship, the qualities of it doesn't change, right. This whole issue of trust, of what is it and sometimes it's a nebulous term and when we're engaging with each other, what are we actually doing? We're actually trying to create to me an assessment in the other individual around four assessments. Right, can I trust what's coming out of your mouth? Is what you really mean? Are you authentic? Right, I'm assessing if you're authentic. And that goes back to sometimes where you don't trust leaders' intentions because we haven't had conversations about them.

Speaker 2: 20:13

There's a sense of care to be in this relationship. This relationship is important At work. I want to support you and your development. I want to hear a direct report. I want to make sure you're setting yourself up for your career and you're here to do a job and help me bring the expertise you have to deliver on our commitments and priorities. But there's a sense of I see value in this relationship.

Speaker 2: 20:36

The third area is really competence, which is an obvious one. Are you competent to do what you say you're going to do or do what I ask you to do and that can also bridge out are you a competent leader? Are you competent in engaging the team? So it's not just technical competencies, it's competencies in are you able to have a relationship with me and be confident in that? And then, finally, the one that a lot of people end up landing on, which we didn't mention, which is reliability. When you say you're going to do something, is it follow through? So, and how we get people to shift those assessments with us so they see us as authentic, they see us caring for the relationship.

Speaker 2: 21:14

We talk about competence because that's a lot of times an issue, also in organizations. We might not even assess that. We just throw something off. I don't trust in that person. We don't ever reflect back on what that is for us. We just assume we are right about that assessment and then we engage that person as if that's true. And the research shows when you do that it's called the Pygmalion effect that same thing mirrors back to you, Rather than having a conversation about performance and concerns about performance in a direct way, in a caring way. I've seen it so many times. I got fired today, but I got an exceed last year and the year before I got today but I got an exceed last year and the year before I got a meet expectation and all of a sudden they're done with me.

Speaker 2: 21:57

I'm sure you've seen it a lot, ryan, yourself I did. So what do we practically do as an executive to build, strengthen those assessments that make up trust? Do that in a practical way.

Speaker 3: 22:09

First and foremost, I think we need to start seeing each other as human beings. You know, it's as fundamental as that that you're a person, that you have a whole aspect of yourself, and we kind of divide ourselves oftentimes when we go into the workforce this is professional Ryan and then we only show the other faces of Ryan, or the holistic aspect of Ryan, to our family and friends. Like you talked about, I use a chart in training on developing trust. It's a training that I call the trust factor and they talk about there's primarily two ways of being, and one is creating mistrust and alienation. Alienation is a result of that mistrust, because we don't want to be around people that we don't trust, obviously. So there's that physical separation, if not psychological separation in terms of how we interact with them, and then there's actual trust, and what trust ultimately creates is unity around communities of people. And so when we engage in mistrust and alienation, we view others as objects, as we had mentioned before, and often they're indicated by adversarial relationships oh, you have this agenda over here. Well, I have this agenda over here. And so there's conflict between the two, and then with that, there's often suspicion. So when we're suspicious of others, we're not fully forthcoming. We don't share our ideas because that person's going to steal my idea and take all the credit themselves. And then there's force and manipulation. Well, I'm going to make them do it, you know, instead of really looking at how can we influence them to want to do those things. That's the power of leadership. And then we've got the self-centered agendas. It's all about me, it's all about my self-aggrandizement, instead of seeing how we can get everybody to come along together to fulfill that mission. It's a we kind of environment instead of an I kind of environment, and ultimately, mistrust and alienation creates these win-lose outcomes. People operate from ego and from that ego standpoint, they have to win by all accounts.

Speaker 3: 24:13

Now, when you have trust and unity, as I mentioned, we view each other as human beings from a holistic perspective and we have supportive relationships For those to find what you had just talked about, David, from a friends and family standpoint, we're very interested in what's going on in your life and we want to contribute to the well-being of your life. Oh, you need to talk to someone about getting your washer and dryer fixed. I've got a guy for you. You know, we enjoy doing that, really enjoy helping other people, and it's remarkable to me that I don't see the same kind of reflections in the work environment. It's all about me, it's all about what I can get, so that openness is a big part of what we're talking about.

Speaker 3: 24:54

That builds that trust is can I be transparent and open and authentic? And we talk about this a lot in the human resources, about having psychological safety, and that's a real and present issue that a lot of workforce really support or think about too often and create. So then there's a freedom and respect component that has to be a part of this trust factor as well Freedom to think the things I need to think, to articulate the things that are appropriate and trust that if I articulate these things, they won't be used against me in the future. And I think that's where that self-protection comes in, and so it needs to be an us-centered agenda, not an I-centered agenda, and ultimately what that does is it creates that stakeholder orientation that you and I talk about a lot, david. It's a win-win type of environment where everybody contributes, everybody's involved and we all grow and develop as a result of that. Rising tide raises all ships.

Speaker 2: 25:57

Yeah, so true. And you have this. You have made this point that the way that you show up in interactions with people is everything being human-centric. Our experience as an executive, with these pressures on us to perform. And going back to a comment you made a couple of shows ago, anatoly, it's all on me to figure this out. You know, maybe I get a coach, maybe I go to training, but there's a lot of pressure on executive shoulders around this. Yet you know, going back to what I said, they really don't have much of a choice if they want to produce a high-performing organization. Right, they don't have much of a choice because their potential, their fundamental job, is to facilitate high-value conversations and building trust-based relationships. Going back to your point, it's about us and we not me so any thoughts you have on any of this Anatoly, as you've been listening.

Speaker 4: 26:55

I'm just curious what you've been tabulating over there. I'm just trying to be more like just close to the ground, what's going on on the ground? Because there's all these conversations, there's all these expectations, partially reflections of the past that we try to take into the future. But what we have right now, the moment, let's face this. Observation number one the level of mental strain put on people has reached historical levels. Mental health issues fly through the roof, because not everyone is well equipped, with a sound psyche to manage all these challenges right. So therefore, people are falling apart on multiple levels. So we have to find some new glue, social glue, to help executives deal with this.

Speaker 4: 27:43

Now, what do we have at the moment? Like I said, the great detachment. People try to disengage as much as they can to keep their wits about them. Let's respect that. Okay, they want to stay like that, let them be. Now, that creates a new buffer zone between people who are, you know, detached, not disenchanted yet, but detached. But you can respect that space. But then, unfortunately, executives have to balance out and compensate for that. They have to show up and instill trust in new, novel ways. They can't talk about it because words again have been tainted ideologically. They can't demonstrate it by their facial cues and body language. And all that because it's not a charade. We're not in circus, right?

Speaker 4: 28:36

So they have to do it somehow and the only thing that's left something that can get translated to some subliminal cues and all that is the level of their personal authenticity. That's good enough to instill trust without you trying to make it work. And you try too hard and people don't buy it. But if you show up and somehow people feel that you're being authentic, that creates the first taste of trust. So there's space, enough created. Nobody's like trying to hoard hey, we're all friends here. No, no, no, it doesn't work. But you create, you know, this respect and that space and authenticity which is the first teaser to get us to trust.

Speaker 3: 29:23

It reminds me you really can't fake energy. You can't fake that. You sense it in other people when you interact with them, and I think that's a really important takeaway that I have from what you had said, anatoly, and I think that you know we might have these wants, we might have these intentions that, yeah, in a space where they are operating from that fear that you're talking about Anatoly, and so while they think that they're doing one thing, they're still operating from fear as their driver, and so they come out transactional instead of relational. That is required of that moment.

Speaker 2: 30:11

They're great. It's a great statistic, I think it's. 92% of communication is nonverbal, 7% is words and if you're faking it it goes back to human. Beings have a radar for inauthenticity. They may not pick it up consciously. They may have a conversation they might have felt, believe the conversation, with this kind of sinking feeling like something was off. And there's automatic assessments in the autopilot that are being made based on their past, history and relationships. And going back to your comment you made a couple of shows ago, ryan, who's the first model for leadership? It's our family, our parents. Well, who's the first model for how we have conversations and figure out how we're going to align because my parents want me to do something, I don't want to do it? How do we deal with that? That's real. That's the quality of that conversation. It happens in the organization all the time. I want you to do this.

Speaker 1: 31:07

I don't want to do it.

Speaker 2: 31:09

And so we escalate into that. So the real question is you know, for our listeners when.

Speaker 1: 31:15

I enter a conversation what am I bringing with?

Speaker 2: 31:17

me? Do I bring presence, curiosity, genuine intention to align? Am I shifting my focus onto them or, as I'm seeing through them, to the goal and they're a resource to get that goal accomplished? Are they an asset to align with me to get that done? So, whether or not, executives are bothered by that, because I got to get stuff done too, bad.

Speaker 2: 31:42

You're at the center of this and you got to figure that out Because if you're not curious, if you're not present, if they sense judgment speed and the pressure to get something done through, you even if you model all the things you learn in that influence without authority workshop that you went to, the real message gets through and communicates. So this is a good area for you to talk about. How does that message get through to somebody when you're doing all the right things but you're not really behind them?

Speaker 4: 32:17

Quite. A few people realize that well, apparently all my old tricks don't apply anymore. All my reputation, connections, relational capital that I've built over decades has gone out through the roof. I mean, like I can't really relate to people in the old manner. I have to invent something. But then quite a few of them realize maybe it starts with me. I have to do some upgrading inside of me to come across as a different person, because all the way they used to perceive me before no longer buys me the power, respect that I used to have and used to bask in that glory. I don't get it anymore. So people who look up to me for something new to make it work, or the pressure from beneath for teams to excel and perform, that's all on me, right. So can you imagine like I have no answers. I'm expected, I'm still expected to do that, right, but at the same time I have no answers. So where do I look? You know microdose my way out of this. I don't know what do I do, right. So that's why people start thinking well, maybe, maybe I need to upgrade myself in a way so I can finally regain traction I used to have with people. You know, maybe my stupid jokes. You know, don't buy me that flair and respect anymore, because they now come out and come across as flat. Right, maybe I need to. I'll tell you why.

Speaker 4: 33:50

This is one thing I forgot to mention, you know, when I was talking about authenticity. The only social glue left that still is a good currency is a sense of humor. Now, why is that? Yeah, that's good. No, no, no. I can tell you why it's good. I can tell you why it's good Because I mentioned that you know mental health issues.

Speaker 4: 34:08

You know mental health issues is a huge problem. It's a prevalent issue. But the only way to check if you still have some sanity about you is your ability to joke. If you can still get a joke, okay, you can't make a joke. Well, you still can get a joke. Okay, you're still okay, I can still deal with you. You're not off the deep end yet. Okay, right, I can still deal with you. You're not off the deep end yet.

Speaker 4: 34:35

So this is the thing that's left as the only very thin film of social glue, but people still use that. They crack a joke, people laugh. Maybe it's not going to come across as a nice, good-natured laugh anymore, maybe a bit strained, but still right. So this is the only thing that's left Maybe a bit strained, but still right. So this is the only thing that's left.

Speaker 4: 34:52

So, for people who are running teams, they begin to realize I need to keep my wits about myself. I need to take care of my team, because without my team I'm nobody. As, like that phrase goes, the surroundings make the king, because the king without his people is nobody. So same thing applies to an executive right? I cannot do the job for my teams if they're falling apart or they're just not there mentally or emotionally invested. But it starts with me, and this is the painful realization for a lot of executives. I thought I used to be fun. I'm smart, I graduated off Harvard. Here I'm all credentials, all my diplomas on the wall, I've been selected to be the top performer of the year. Nobody cares about me. What do I do? So this is the time when executives should be looking at a way to reinvent themselves, upgrade themselves, do something about it, because if they don't do it today, tomorrow they will be arrested. I mean you're pointing to again.

Speaker 2: 35:55

we have this natural ability in us to connect to others. We've layered on top of that ego, credentials all you said just now, antoli and yet then we have to try to force it, to try to figure out tactics we can use to seem like we're genuinely interested. But that's a layer on top of all the disruption that we're dealing with. So we're becoming less and less relevant in the ability to do that. This is the thing that's hard for people to get. It's natural for you to connect with others. There are things that may be in your way of doing that, from your past and how you determine you're going to do that and how you've succeeded up to this point that you have to re-educate yourself, relearn, upgrade, as you said. But if your conversations aren't creating clarity, alignment, energy, it's time to look inward and explore again the impact of the level of consciousness on creating trust.

Speaker 2: 36:54

Because it is the most natural thing when we are relaxed, in a natural state of ourselves, to bring out the best in others. I was just talking to another client that just finished the reset and one of the things they said is finished the reset and one of the things they said is I'm naturally present, it's my primary place of standing and uh, I, I hear these thoughts come bubble up in my head. But they have. They don't hold anymore. They just fall back down into the water, like if you disappear back into the consciousness and I find myself back consistently in presence again and and when that happens, you don't have to think about anything.

Speaker 1: 37:34

You just are present.

Speaker 2: 37:35

And in that moment you lean into what's there and the other thing people don't get. And this relates to the focus thing, it relates to this conversation that when you're present moment is pregnant with the solutions and in my experience and I've seen this in others, as they relax and take it moment to moment, and in your moment to moment experience you can begin to trust that what needs to emerge needs to emerge. I tell clients all the time this conversation isn't the end of the world.

Speaker 2: 38:08

If it doesn't go perfectly, there's another conversation. You can have to clean that up to make sure people are clear.

Speaker 1: 38:16

So when you're in the conversation, be in the conversation you're in right, because that's the only one you have.

Speaker 2: 38:21

Is that the solution to what you were saying about Anatoly, that when we shift and upgrade? How does it enable us to be more effective in this territory of building trust and collaboration?

Speaker 4: 38:34

Well, this is interesting because consciousness is the only one, the only element of our human being that we can still kind of tinker with. Right, because everything else is transient. Everything else you touch it may mar your experience as a human. It could cripple your mental capacity. You're taking risks with all these things, right, but your consciousness is ultimately something that belongs to you and something that can impact the material world around you.

Speaker 4: 39:08

So here is the thing If we look only at the very taste that higher consciousness provides, like better self-awareness, the presence, and then what springs from this is authenticity, and suddenly you're giving off new vibes into the world. Suddenly, your boss pulls you in and says what's about time for your promotion? I don't know why, but I feel like you're really up for this job. And suddenly you don't get harassed by your toxic direct reports anymore, because they start behaving and you don't know why. Right, you see? So this is such a powerful thing that you don't have to again do something extraordinary. We already have it all within us. It's all within us, but unfortunately it requires a modicum of humility to recognize that we do have it inside of us.

Speaker 4: 40:05

And number two well, what do I do about it? Okay, you know like in the old days it was easy to get lost. You know yourself to alcohol, like you know booze and whatever right. And then you know like, well, you work hard, you play hard. Well, these days, unfortunately, your attention needs to be present and fully switched on 24 by 7. We no longer have luxury of disappearing and then recharging our batteries in the crazy way and come back and still be able to perform. So now we are completely transparent. Anybody can reach us 24 by seven. So that leaves us with no excuse. We have to address it. What do we do? How do we get there? Do I have to kiss up to the Leia Lama to anoint me and give me some magic potion? Do I have to buy another bottle of snake oil and down it before going to work? I don't know right, people should be like wrestling with all these ideas, but the question is the moment they start realizing they have to do something, it's the beginning of a journey.

Speaker 3: 41:12

I wanted to emphasize what Anatoly said.

Speaker 3: 41:14

You have to have a learner's mind, and what I mean by that is you know, you have to feel like you can't know it all, you don't have to have all the answers, and as managers and leaders, we've been wooed into the sense that, well, that's why I get paid the big bucks, because I have all the answers and I know what I'm supposed to do and I'm going to tell you guys what to do, and your job is just to go implement it. I see that over and over and over when I interact with executives, and that's a very ego-based kind of thing, and those are the same people that you can't learn everything if you already know it, and so you're already closed off from having that humility that Anatoly stated that is required of being of a learner's mind, of being open, of being an observer and being very present and conscious in that moment. So that that state of being is very relevant to everything that we're talking about here. And I just wanted to emphasize that because I interact with it on a regular basis in my work.

Speaker 2: 42:18

Again, the emphasis of this is so it's natural to us, right? So when we're in our most natural self, we're able to be authentic and expression of what you just said, ryan, in a natural way. It's not something we have to learn, we have it innate within us. Today it's the greatest hack there is. If you had to say it's the greatest hack, it solves everything that we're talking about. Not that it won't have conflicts and challenges and you'll have good days and bad days that's still going to happen but it's how you're meeting it resiliently.

Speaker 2: 42:54

Also, what consciousness brings is this passion for purpose, right? We talked about that last time the importance of having a directional mechanism as purpose and vision that draws us forward. When we are more conscious, we are more clear about that and more connected to that, and we then know we need other people for that to unfold. And we then know we need other people for that to unfold, not because we need them as resources. We need assets to grow our vision. We have the seed of something great, but that seed can't grow unless we give it nurturance, and that nurturance comes from relationships and trust of others who buy into it for varying different degrees. If I'm coming to work for varying different degrees, if I'm coming to work.

Speaker 2: 43:36

So, looking back to the authentic, courageous leadership system framework, trust building is not just some outcome. It's a byproduct of who we're being, as you mentioned, Ryan, and when you lead from presence and intention, your energy, as I said, speaks louder than words and people respond authentically and ownership and innovation, and it's about shifting your internal operating system. Again, it goes back to that. That is what we stand in and it is the truth. So I want to revisit the resilient leader method and how it supports executives to upgrade that naturally and instantly so they can have higher quality of interactions and build meaningful alignment, as we've talked about. Again. How does you know, I ask you, how does this method, and specifically the Leadership Resilience Reset, help leaders access that confidence and composure, to bring that natural ability forward to build connection with others?

Speaker 4: 44:34

I'll just provide a very simple comparison, not using fancy terms and all that. A lot of people know about neuroplasticity. Right, it's like when we learn a new language, a new skill and all that. It takes many repetitions, a long time to make our brain adjust to those changes. Well, think about this. This method is being more like a neuroplasticity on steroids, so you technically get things moving very fast and the results stick, and the beauty of it is that you don't have to do anything as we have the entire fuel for the neuroplasticity in us. Have the entire fuel for the neuroplasticity in us. It's all in us, so we don't have to consciously whip it up and trying to to make sure, like, is it really happening? Is it really working? So that's the beauty of it. So we all have the potential for neuroplasticity, except for those rare situations when, for whatever reason, our brain has been impacted physically or chemically, whatever. That created a lot of challenges for the system to function, and most times, the limbic system. Sometimes people frighten when they indulge in things and of course that makes it sometimes very difficult. But technically we all have it now. But usually it's the question that executives ask well, it's all fluff stuff.

Speaker 4: 46:03

Tell me more about this, like cautiousness. Give me some comparisons. What it's all about. Say, look, if you meditate, just you're going to find lots of studies saying that your performance is going to improve and productivity is going to improve within. Productivity is going to improve within the first half a year of just meditating for 15 minutes a day. Lots of research. Now, the best, you can raise your consciousness by five points a year if you use Dr Hawking's scale. Five points a year if you really meditate religiously, day by day. What I do is use my voice and then anybody who's exposed to my voice, their consciousness goes up. It could be 10 points, could be 15 points, could be 20, could be 30, could be 50. It's not up to me. Your body, your subconscious mind, your nervous system chooses to react. How much of that is needed for you right now and this is the beauty there's nothing being forced. It's just our way to self-heal and respond to external stimuli.

Speaker 2: 47:09

I have a podcast coming out with Linda Monroe, who's a longtime residential trainer at the Monroe Institute. We were talking about well, how could this happen so quickly? And she pointed to we're really just beginning to understand the brain, just even so at the tip of the iceberg, and she mentioned how sound can carry healing very quickly. And you talk about your voice, anatoly and your ability to be in a theta, one of the most coherent states frequencies our brain can be in. You're always in theta, where we tend to most of your beings bounce around alpha, beta, et cetera, which are faster, less coherent states that are important for thinking and processing and doing things. Not that they're not valuable states, but that when they train with that theta state, they kind of connect. And what Linda said is that the brain actually wants and craves its natural state. It's just that it's been layered on with all this trauma et cetera and paper cuts, as I call them, the little bumps that we've had where we say I'll never do that again, with a lot of emotion.

Speaker 2: 48:13

And the brain says okay, we don't do, you know sometimes, okay, we don't do that again, and it's down there figuring out how to compensate. That's what's brilliant about it. But it causes us to create hiccups and waves of blocks that enable us to be in our most natural state, which it also has a longing to be. So that's why it happens quickly, because sound is shown to have a quick and immediate impact, and that is also calling something that's naturally wanting to emerge. Is that fair to say? Yeah, yes, any thoughts from you, ryan?

Speaker 3: 48:44

I love how you put that, and sound resonance and frequency is something that's fascinated me for a long time and I think that we're just kind of starting to open our eyes to the impact of that and things that have been kind of removed, that would have advanced those capabilities in us in the past, which I find fascinating. As well. As you're talking and articulating things, I'm starting to think about the leader perspective of these companies and organizations and how they could kind of stand back and just imagine within themselves what would it be like if we could get everyone to operate from authenticity and their strengths. And I pose that question with a visionary notion, but there's a very practical component to this.

Speaker 3: 49:30

My wife is a gifted and talented teacher and she has been recognized for her capabilities in teaching that particular student population. So what do they do? They assigned her everything but gifted and talent teaching, and this is because it's predicated on a need for her capabilities to also reach other students. So we're going to remove you from your highest strengths and capabilities and put you over here. We have way too many people that are on the wrong seat on the wrong bus because we don't operate in strength. So true. So I asked leaders to really think about what would it look like if everybody in your organization operated from that authenticity and their greatest strengths? I mean, the capabilities would just be explosive.

Speaker 2: 50:25

Yeah, we have so much more to offer, as do our direct reports, and it's almost like you have to. That goes back to what I said. Yes, culture e-strategy for lunch, but what do you have to do to actually activate that? And that's through, first, you being in this upgraded operating system and then operating from there to help others. That's what bringing out the best in others is all about. It's not just so okay. I want to make sure they feel, when they come to work, that their career is in good shape and that I care about their development.

Speaker 2: 50:53

That's the old way. When you are in the place that our clients go after this, you don't just want that from a kumbaya standpoint. You recognize how important and powerful it is to have your people's best come to work and that that's something you want for them, and you get a great benefit, as you just said, from that ride. So I love sharing these stories about my clients and what they got from the Resilient Leader Method, and this one's a relationship-oriented story, as we're talking about today. I had a client, dan, who did the Resilient Leadership Method and specifically the Leadership Resilience Reset, which is the first component of it, the leadership resides reset, which is the first component of it.

Speaker 2: 51:39

And then Dan was a real estate executive and he was facing a particularly difficult leadership challenge because he was reporting to somebody he gradually recognizes as a deeply narcissistic boss. Now, if anybody out there and I've ran into a few myself have ever worked or related to a narcissistic leader or individual, you know how challenging and maddening that is. These individuals often seek power and control at all costs. They can feel threatened by others who possess strong combination of competence and confidence.

Speaker 2: 52:12

They don't like them because that's shining on their parade and in response they suddenly and overtly undermine these individuals to maintain their power and control. And this is exactly the environment that Dan found himself in. His boss played favorites with a loyal but often less capable associate who did as he said. Without question he loved him. Meanwhile, dan, who was genuinely focused on delivering value and maintaining high-quality, profitable properties for the company and served the tenants, found himself increasingly frustrated and before the leadership results reset again, his boss antics drove him crazy. If we're ever going to get a competitive situation, you know how it can drive you crazy. The constant power plays the micromanagement. This interference not only got in Dan's way, but it was undermining the actual company's ability to perform at its highest level, which is crazy. Narcissists talk a good game, but they're never good for your organization.

Speaker 2: 53:08

So after the reset, everything changed. All of a sudden Dan started showing up differently. He was grounded, he stuck to his guns, he kind of found the guy funny. Actually, once after the reset he learned how to engage his boss for calm clarity, holding his feet to the ground around facts, and then you know what, can you show the receipts on that? And he was doing it in a way that seemed supportive. So the narcissist gets confused when that happens. But he stopped, you know. But he stopped being manipulated and derailed by the boss's manipulation and he became really effective in a new way, not by fighting harder but by remaining centered. And then, in seeing Dan effectively engage under these circumstances was really powerful to witness, as I said. And he moved key initiatives forward, got around his boss, figured out a way to keep things going and move things forward.

Speaker 1: 53:55

And his boss, of course, being a narcissist, just remained difficult, but Dan was just not reacting to him anymore, which drives a narcissist crazy too.

Speaker 2: 54:02

You know that said, narcissists have a way, when they're frustrated, of creating more toxicity around them to try to keep that power. And his boss began eliminating team members. And it was a signal to Dan maybe I should just look outside this organization. This is not worth it. So, almost serendipitously, a recruiter called Dan and he interviewed for a new role and knocked it out of the park in the interviews and he actually told me afterwards I wouldn't have been as grounded and effective in those interviews before the reset. He said he was just really on his game.

Speaker 2: 54:37

And today Dan is the head of a real estate of a highly successful firm. He's making three times his income he made in his previous company and he said I could have ended my career here. He's happy. He's in a sweet spot, a perfect job for him. They're giving me room to do what I want to do. I've got great owners and the results that Dan produced for them right away was out of the park. In fact, one of the owners came to him and said you're one of the best investments you've ever made in the company. You're really helping us take it to another level. So he really got a lot of value from doing this process and I want to go back to the authentic, courageous leadership system that I talked about. I had that before I met Anatoly and it's been a good marriage between my work and his work, and he said I learned those skills before I understand it.

Speaker 2: 55:27

I applied it and actually Dan did make some major changes in his approach to interactions and he started doing centering exercises. He started doing a lot of the right things because he wanted to be better. But he said now I look at it and says that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 55:41

And said now I want to go back, because now it's about really sharpening my saw and understanding how to see the playing field more clearly. I'm not worried about not being able to do the skills, but by seeing the playing field feel clearly through that authentic, courageous leadership system, I can now help myself and remind myself of things. So it was a really good experience and Dan really got a lot of value out of that. As we close today, I want to see if you gentlemen have any final words as we part the show about today's conversation about trust, collaboration, what gets in its way and what is the solution. Anything you want to share?

Speaker 3: 56:20

Yeah, I just wanted to say, in reflection to the story that you told, I was having a coaching conversation with an executive yesterday and we had talked about this kind of thing, about managing the relationship with others instead of being reactive to others, and the conditions that separate those two approaches of managing the relationship with someone versus being reactive with someone. The difference maker is that awareness and that's what I'm hearing is the resilient leadership method provides is that level of awareness where you see the opportunity to manage the relationship versus just being pulled along by the nose and being very reactive to everything that they say. So that's important for our audience to recognize is awareness, is the key. Resilient leadership method is the process.

Speaker 4: 57:10

Now what's really interesting is that because I raised all these issues surrounding the challenge on a broader scale so societal and political and economic challenges they are pushing executives and any managers to realize that, well, words don't work anymore. Like you pointed out, the energy carries a lot more information, something we give off. So we can't really manipulate people the old way. We can't really use all the right words and expect people to believe that, because all those subtle cues that we give off tell a different story. So we have become so naked, so transparent in our inability to manipulate others anymore. So maybe it is time, it is high time to actually start changing that, addressing that and becoming more authentic. Because, like you said, ryan, what would it be like if companies were staffed with people who were grounded and authentic? That should be quite interesting to see that would be pretty amazing.

Speaker 2: 58:26

I appreciate you, gentlemen, being on the show again. Thank you, anatoly and Ryan, for joining me today. Always grateful for these conversations, I look forward to them. And again I just want to point to you know you can think of the Resilient Leader Method as the sponsor of our conversations. I look forward to them. And again I just want to point to you know you can think of the resilient leader method as the sponsor of our show.

Speaker 2: 58:41

Reason why we're emphasizing this is because it really is a game changer. There's nothing like that and, as I said on our other earlier show, I've been on the quest for 25 years. I knew that raising a consciousness was the way. And then you know, you talk to leaders about that. They look cross-eyed what's consciousness? And all that stuff and I had to deal for years of trying to hone it, trying to figure it out, and even got trauma-informed. As a coach, I did many different things and all those are good things, but the difference that this has made for my clients is just profound. So glad that you're here and we're able to have this conversation as we close today's show. Let's recognize that trust isn't built on charisma. It's not built in some clever strategy. As we said, it's built on the level of your consciousness, on your capacity to meet the moment with authenticity, presence and care.

Speaker 2: 59:34

The Authentic, courageous Leadership System Applied gives you the map and the resilient leadership method rewires your operating system so you can walk that map naturally and powerfully. If you're ready to create a culture of trust, not by force but by who you're being, then the journey begins with your own awareness, as Ryan said, because when you rise in consciousness, the game changes. The ability to deepen trust and improve our ability to foster better relationships shows we can forward what is most important as an executive and what we care most about. Moving forward. It becomes a natural result. If something in the conversation resonated with you today, if you're listening, you'd like to explore more about how the resilient leader method can support your leadership and organizational culture. Reach out and let's start a conversation. Thanks for listening to. Unfazed on Fire. Until next time, lead with courage, create with intention and stay unfazed under fire. This is Dave Kragutz Leadership Alchemist, signing off. Have a great rest of your day. Bye.