Speaker 1: 0:11

Welcome to Unfazed Under Fire, a podcast designed to elevate your leadership and amplify your impact. Each episode offers valuable insights to help you transform your vision into reality, cultivate high-performing cultures that attract top talents, and navigate the complexities of today's uncertain, chaotic world with confidence and clarity. Now tuning into your needs, here's your host and moderator, seasoned executive coach and leadership alchemist, david Craig Utz.

Speaker 2: 0:45

What if the way we lead, govern and even perceive reality itself is fundamentally flawed? What if the key to transforming our world isn't just about better policies or stronger leaders, but about having our leaders engage in an entirely new level of consciousness that enables them to engage the kind of transformation we all crave? Welcome to a conversation that dares to connect consciousness and leadership at the highest levels. Here, on, unfazed Under Fire, our mission is to challenge conventional leadership thinking and leadership development practices to explore deeper forces shaping our world, because, in times of complexity, uncertainty and massive disruption, executives that cultivate deeper awareness have the power to lead in ways that others cannot. Authentic leadership isn't just about making better decisions. It's about expanding the lens through which we see the playing field, so we have more power to turn our vision into reality. And today we're inviting you into a conversation that will stretch your lens wide open. For executive leaders, this isn't an abstract discussion. In an era of uncertainty and accelerated change, those who learn to access deeper intuition, lead from expanded awareness and act with clarity and conviction will be the ones that shape what's next. Joining me to discuss all of this is Linda LeBlanc, a consciousness pioneer, political trailblazer and seasoned trainer with the Monroe Institute. Linda's work spans over two and a half decades at the forefront of consciousness research, helping thousands to explore the untapped potential within themselves through the Monroe Institute's groundbreaking residential and online programs. Her deep understanding of altered states and human development isn't just theoretical it's rooted in experience and application.

Speaker 2: 2:22

Now the Monroe Institute is a world-renowned organization dedicated to the exploration of human consciousness. Founded by Robert Monroe, the Institute has been a global leader in researching altered states and developing technologies like Hemisync that help individuals access expanded states for healing, insight and personal transformation. Its mission is to create a world where expanded consciousness is understood, accessible and integrated into daily life, empowering people to live with greater clarity, purpose and connection. But Linda didn't just stop with her work for this great organization. She also spent and served 17 years as an elected official in Cyprus, where she brought her commitment to transparency, anti-corruption and ethical leadership into the public arena. Her journey reflects a rare integration of inner exploration and outer impact and, according to Linda, this integration must happen if we want to see positive change in the world. So welcome to the show, linda. It's really great to have you.

Speaker 3: 3:16

Well, thank you very much, David. It's nice to be here with you.

Speaker 2: 3:18

So I always like to start at the beginning, when I have special guests on the show and have you just share a little bit about your journey and if you could tell me a little bit about how life happened, unfolded and how your deep interest in consciousness evolved.

Speaker 3: 3:33

Well, I grew up in Canada in an Irish, french, roman Catholic family, a big family, a lower middle class. Nobody in my family went to university Like at the age of 16, it was get out, get a job, pay room and class. Nobody in my family went to university. We, like at the age of 16, it was get out, get a job, pay room and board. So that's sort of my background. You know. That doesn't mean that you don't have the desire to learn and keep learning and that's what we call lifelong learning.

Speaker 3: 3:59

And so in our family, because of the Irish sort of Celtic connection, there's quite a lot of psychic phenomena that is just accepted as a normal part of life. Again, it's that sort of wider perspective. So we would always hear things about dreams, premonitions and oh, I've got a bad feeling, don't do that. So it was accepted, that sort of thinking, but it never really went much beyond that. But it had a great value in the sense that it wasn't dismissed and it was sort of like, well, you know, there's some really unknown things in the world and why don't you go out and find out about it? So you go to the library, get some books. I was very much encouraged to do that. So I've been like that since I was a young girl, always looking, saying, wow, that's pretty strange. And my younger sister was quite psychic and she used to get what we called the death dreams, so she would know when someone was going to die. And some of the circumstances were just so unusual that you couldn't just poo-poo this and say, well, it's just a coincidence. So I've been paying attention to this for a long, long time.

Speaker 3: 5:04

And then I was very, very blessed when I met my future second husband and we shared all this interest. But he had a really deep background in philosophy and he was a very sort of man of the world, renaissance type guy. And shortly after we met he got a great job at the United Nations. So we took off from Canada like 45 years ago and never went back. So we were working in the United Nations and traveling all around and being in countries for long periods of time where you got to know the culture, the language, the people. So it was an amazing education for me and it was a lot of fun. We had lots of laughs, but I'll tell you I was really glad to do this back then. I wouldn't want to be living that kind of a life today because I think the world is getting a little bit stranger and it's more unstable, especially concerning traveling and things that can suddenly come up that can impede your plans. So I feel very blessed that I had that as my background.

Speaker 2: 6:03

How did you first come across the Monroe Institute and what drew you to their work?

Speaker 3: 6:08

Well, it was thanks to my late husband, john Knowles. He read about Bob Monroe in an article and he showed it to me and he said what do you think of that? And I read it. I thought, wow, that's pretty cool. They're teaching people to go out of body and there's an institute, an educational facility in Virginia. And then he said to me, he said I'm going there. I said, well, you're not going without me. So both of us went. That was in 1994. And Bob Monroe was alive then.

Speaker 3: 6:34

So we had an amazing opportunity to be there in these intensive residential retreats while he was there and he would come in the evenings. It just blew me open and I just thought, because of course the Institute is renowned for developing special sound technology and the original one was called Hemisync, so hemispheric synchronization. So it was a technique, a technology that Bob Monroe developed. It works on how the mechanism of how the brain integrates different sounds and Bob was very interested in how he could use sound to alter consciousness and he was interested in studying the sleep state in particular. And of course what he discovered was well, if we're going to study people sleeping, we have to find out how to relax them. So he got into this very interesting sort of borderland states of consciousness that if you can hold people in that in-between state between awake and asleep, all kinds of interesting things can happen.

Speaker 3: 7:36

So we had the sound technology of the hemi-sync, which it actually synchronizes the right and left hemispheres of the brain, so you're moving into a more whole-brain state and it enables the listener to access so much more. And of course you know that was 40 years ago and the Institute has carried on with research and we're learning more about the brain all the time, so there's new technologies coming out. It's really very exciting leading-edge research and I just love the Monroe Institute because we're really at the forefront of consciousness and exploring it. And how do you take these insights and apply them in your daily life and what is it you want to do? Why?

Speaker 2: 8:17

are you here, right, exactly, well, and I know that you have a stellar intellect and you enjoy the territories that you and your husband talked about. Maybe share a little bit about some of the experiences you had that had you go whoa, this is something, there's something here. I'm having an internal experience and it's relating this way to my life. You share maybe one or two of those that you had personally, that kind of had you even go wow, this is not only amazing, this is incredible stuff.

Speaker 3: 8:47

That's right.

Speaker 3: 8:48

Yeah, well, you know, when you're moving into these altered states, where your mind is awake, your body's asleep and you're at that borderland level of consciousness. You have access to a lot of what some people might consider sort of the dream state, where you get dreams, but you're wide awake, you know. So you're still processing things and you remember, and of course, we use a lot of techniques to support that process. But for me, I was having experiences where I'm quite a visual person and I would see amazing colors and I would have encounters with other beings and just being enthralled with wow, what's going on, where did this come from? And then, when you start to integrate it because that's an important part of what we do at these it was like, oh my God, this is so familiar, this is a part of me that I had forgotten about and I'm thinking how could I possibly have forgotten this? And it's always been the most important thing for me is that sort of inner world, and I was interested in dreams and all of that long before, but then I thought there's so much more there as well. So for me it was a remembering process. I also had an out-of-body experience while I was there, so that consolidated a lot that I knew.

Speaker 3: 10:17

When I was probably in my early teens I used to go into sleep paralysis, where you can't move, and you'd have all these vibrations in the body and then you would just be sort of rolling with this and I never knew what that was until I went to the Institute and I read Bob Monroe's books and it's exactly what he describes and those are sort of precursor states for going out of body Now. So that's another type of shift of consciousness where you sort of pop out and you're still awake and alert but you're not connected totally to the body. So again, what's the lesson of that? Well, I am more than my physical body. There's something else going on there and that's an important shift in understanding your consciousness in much deeper levels. And I know a lot of people go to Monroe Institute because they want to have an out-of-body experience. Some people do, but for me it was okay. Done that, all right, that's good. What else can I do?

Speaker 3: 11:16

Because it wasn't my calling to do the work I wanted to do in the out-of-body stage. I needed to ground these more expanded states here in the physical world and just be more creative in what I do in this life. And it really supported me in actually finding my voice and, even more important, having something to say, that it really surprised me that I had this inside of me, because I used to be a very shy, quiet little girl. Sit in the back corner and don't dare look at me, just ignore me. I'm happy sitting just quiet in the back, and I was like that up until I went to the Monroe Institute.

Speaker 3: 11:56

And so I found my voice and finding I had a way to talk about things that I felt were important and even more interesting, to talk about things that I felt were important and even more interesting, I found people were starting to listen, because it's not just about talking, it's about having a message that resonates with other people. And so I found, oh, people are listening. So I kept talking. It was encouraging, so now it's hard to shut me up.

Speaker 2: 12:20

Yeah, well, it's interesting You're touching on a lot of people out there say, well, I go outside my body and I can have these internal experiences and I can get between sleep and wakefulness and see what that's about. I love what you say. We're not just physical bodies. Simple test for that is if you can be aware of it. You can't be it right. There's something else that's watching the body and I know if I get a pain in my side. There's something aware of that and that awareness is more who we are than our physical experience, because we can go outside of the physical body.

Speaker 2: 12:50

But I want to point back to that. You started talking about your ability to start now speaking, and my sense is it was speaking from a place of passion and deep caring for something and that what you noticed about that is people began listening to you, and so you're touching on some of the practical things that occur as we explore this inner landscape. As we become more aware, more conscious, we start relating, actually building a relationship with our consciousness. And so what are the practical things occurred for you and that you see from others who come to the Institute and do these programs that go back to their life and make a difference and impact in their life.

Speaker 3: 13:28

Yeah, well, again, it's very much about choices, that people can come and have these experiences, but nobody's going to force them either to have an experience or to integrate it in their own unique way. So we provide skills, techniques, ways to integrate things, but it's always about choices and the person's individual predilection, shall we say. So some people come and they find that, oh my God, I have a healing capacity and I can help others, and then they decide that they're going to work on that. There's all kinds of different things. People can have really awakenings of new knowledge of who they are and really stepping into their power and tapping into inner resources that then they take back to their lives and they can make the changes that they want.

Speaker 3: 14:17

One of the things that comes up when you're in these intensive retreats is okay, I've got these experiences, I'm looking at my life, maybe I want to change what I'm doing in the world right now, and a lot of people do that, not everybody, some people.

Speaker 3: 14:32

It's right for them just to make the changes within their current relationships. Some people come and marriages break up, they change jobs, they move countries, they just become, they just step into a completely different way of being, and they're doing this with a sense of confidence based on their own experiences that are their unique experience, and that's why it's so powerful, because everybody who comes to the Institute is a unique individual, and this is one of the great beauties of our species on this planet this sort of magical mix. I mean, you couldn't make this up. It's just incredible the diversity and how people can open up into so much more. So it's a big, big challenge for people of how they want to integrate this and, of course, many people come back and do the advanced programs because of the experiences they had and they want to build on that, and I'm a good example of that. I kept going back.

Speaker 2: 15:27

There's this limited understanding of who we are and what resources we have. And you're pointing to something that's really important is that we also have this other side of us that can be on autopilot, based on what we're told, how we've been conditioned, what is expected of us, what we think, our limited understanding of what's possible and not possible. And what I'm hearing you saying is that as you have these experiences and you begin to integrate them, you tap into something more powerful and more deep in you that you didn't see before, and the natural desire of human beings and part of our species. And then we want to express that in a way that's practical and that's meaningful to us. And I've seen this also in leaders.

Speaker 2: 16:09

As they've developed their awareness and their consciousness, they kind of stop dealing with the silly stuff anymore, as you said. Their voice gets louder, more influential, they have less patience for theirs and others' reactivity, not in a mean way, but in a way like, okay, let's get to the point right, let's move this forward. But also the other thing that you're saying that's very profound is we do get access to these resources that are below the neck, if you will. That's maybe not the greatest way to say it, but outside of our physical experience and how, allow us to access things and allows us to mind the moment more, to make it richer for us and others around us. Is that fair to say?

Speaker 3: 16:53

Yes, and don't forget, at the Institute we've got a sound technology that's actually helping to synchronize the left and right hemispheres and so that means it's changing the brainwave activity, that is actually changing the neurwave activity and it's actually changing the neuronal pathways that we have in our brain. And if you go back 30, 40 years ago, the models of science we had about the brain and how it worked, they were all wrong and they just keep throwing the models out because we're learning more all the time. So with this technology it helps you move into these deeper states where the left and right hemispheres are working together. And what's really relevant, I think, in how we can help facilitate change, is that a lot of the behaviors that we have as an individual in our lives, they're laid down by the time we're seven years old, and all of that was done as a child, when you're in the theta brainwave. Most kids don't even get into beta until they're eight or nine or even older. So these patterns are laid down in theta. So that's like four to eight hertz. So when we're working in the synchronized brainwave states that we introduce and this is a very highly sequenced layering of different signals, but some of the experiences that we have are designed to put you in a similar sort of state when you were laying down these patterns in the theta brainwave and then learning techniques to release things that don't serve you anymore. So it's a pattern.

Speaker 3: 18:24

Maybe when you were a kid you had an experience that you didn't know, you were afraid or you didn't feel comfortable. So you sort of protect yourself and you encrust that trauma or that paper cut that's a nice expression that you use, that I like that. You just sort of bury it a bit. So in some of the exercises we do, we have opportunities where we can revisit this. You're not reliving the experience, You're just giving yourself an opportunity, without even knowing what it is when you're in the synchronized brain state of releasing what no longer serves you.

Speaker 3: 19:00

And it's very powerful and at first I was a little bit skeptical myself and I thought that's kind of interesting. But I know 100% that that was effective for me and I see it with our participants. And actually at the Institute we get people from all professions, all walks of life, and we have of course had psychologists, doctors, psychiatrists, some of whom will come and say this is too easy, it doesn't work, and we've had some who've said. You know what this does work. This is sort of a shortcut where, with the sound technology, we're accessing more neuronal pathways, that we're repairing cooperation with your own consciousness and your heart, and just, of course, the brain and the heart. Some of the latest research is showing that it's the heart that's really the ruler, not the brain. It's the other way around.

Speaker 2: 19:57

There's just tremendous opportunity yeah yeah.

Speaker 3: 20:04

Right, more information goes from the heart to the brain than the other way around. Right, that's right. I mean this was a huge breakthrough, and I mean so. It just goes to show you that there's still a lot more to learn and that I think we're really onto some really important developments now, as we are working with the neuronal pathways, with individuals' consciousness, and it's a key to moving into the next step of our evolution as human beings, kind of in our teenage years as a species, kind of a little bit.

Speaker 2: 20:28

Maybe some people say I don't know if that or whatever. But you know you mentioned a couple of things that I want us to kind of come back and ground this in, like this idea, first of this word, consciousness often seems so deeply profound and mysterious, right, how do you define consciousness? And then the practical value of expanded. You've already touched on some of those practical ways, but if you were to kind of summarize that, how would you define consciousness and the practical nature of expanding?

Speaker 3: 20:58

it. Okay to keep this really simple and short, I'll just say it's a state of awareness Like we're conscious. Right now. We're not even questioning that, are we and you have different layers of that awareness, and Bob Monroe used the term of phase shifting. So your consciousness is shifting constantly. So that means your awareness. So we're wide awake and alert now, but when you go to bed at night and you go fall asleep, that's a shift in consciousness, it's a shift of awareness. You're moving into a different state of being. So I mean, there's huge discussions and philosophical dissertations on what consciousness is. But I think I look at it from a personal point of view. So I'm saying well, I know I'm conscious and I know when somebody's not conscious, like when they're dead, right. So that's, that's sort of the broad parameters that we're working in and we can play around with shifting phases of that level of awareness as much as we like and where our interest lies.

Speaker 2: 21:59

Oh yeah, and there's an infinite depth of experiencing that right. There's even people that have been practitioners for years and years and years just find deeper and deeper resources within themselves as they engage in the expansion of that consciousness and the resource. It goes back to the practical thing and the resources of intuition. And some people talk about the three brains the head, the heart and the gut. Right, we gain access to these resources in those areas more as we become more aware. Is that fair to say? And the other thing you mentioned, which I would like to just touch on, and however you want to explain it, is that the brain is operating at different frequencies, and you mentioned theta, which I think is a meditative state, is a place of creativity, of integration and healing that you mentioned that we are in up till seven, eight years old or so. Mostly we don't even visit beta. But can you talk about the different brain frequencies and their benefit and why theta is such a powerful state for building coherence, maybe with all of them, if that's fair to say?

Speaker 3: 23:00

Well, you know, there's a lot of very interesting research that the Institute has been doing in recent years. If you start, it's about the speed of the brainwaves, like when you're sleeping, you're in delta, which is really low, slow waves of brain, that is a little bit faster. And then you get into beta, which is even faster, it's more alert, and then, as you're moving even faster into the gamma and not that long ago really we didn't even know the brain produced gamma waves which are very fast, like above 30 hertz cycles per second. So we're saying, well, we weren't able to measure that before because we didn't have machines that moved fast enough. So now there's a lot of focus on gamma waves and they're finding out that this is where a lot of really interesting things go on. It's very much associated with that sort of aha moment, that synthesis and psychic awareness. So we've got a lot of our new Monroe sound science is. We've developed technology that can help to facilitate shifting into the gamma.

Speaker 3: 24:04

And of course, you see, these are meditative states or natural states of the brain that experienced meditators can enter. Usually after decades of experience they can get into it fairly quickly. But we've had experienced meditators, including Buddhist monks, come and do programs at the Institute, and they were astonished how we were taking people in off the street no experience in meditation whatsoever and within a couple of days people are experiencing what it would take decades of practice in a monastery to develop that facility. So you have this multiple layers that you can access in the brain's functioning, and we measure that through the brain waves. But I'm sure there's a lot more going on as well, but this is something that we know about scientifically, so it creates a validity to it within our Western paradigm that we're living in.

Speaker 3: 25:00

Where you want proof, you're just making this up. No, we know there's brain waves. There are certain states that are easily identified with altered states. Whether it's meditation, healing out of body, all of these can be identified with certain brainwave states. But it's not just one particular state, it's usually a mix of them all working together in a synchronized way. That seems to be a key.

Speaker 2: 25:26

Well, they all have value right in their own way. But where do you think that most human beings in general are operating in our world? Is it more alpha beta? I mean, obviously they're going to sleep and they're experiencing the deep sleep state. Hopefully, right, that's where rejuvenation happens, in sleep.

Speaker 2: 25:43

And in the day-to-day experience. Where do you think most human beings operate, and is theta the state that allows you to begin to integrate and create more coherence and maybe even experience more higher levels of gamma? Is that a correct understanding? So I'd love you to share? Just talk a little bit about it.

Speaker 3: 26:01

Yeah, to a certain degree that's true, but it's not that simple and in fact, it's hard to come back to how you started with. Where are people in their lives? I mean, most people are going to go be cycling through all of these brainwave states every day. It's a question of having some awareness and conscious intention so that you can be more focused. I know, with leadership and trying to accomplish goals, if you're in delta or theta ain't going to happen right. You need to use the beta and further beyond.

Speaker 3: 26:32

But they're finding now that there's actually bridging and it's not just the theta. Theta is a very important integral state, but they're finding now that delta is very important to get into the higher states, because, of course, you have to be in that really relaxed state where you're not exactly asleep but you're not really awake in like the beta state. So you're in that borderland state where you're able to maintain this higher functioning. And we're finding that the theta, delta and, in particular, the alpha we call it the alpha bridge, the alpha, we call it the alpha bridge when you get those synchronizing and working well together, that is sort of the platform that leaps up to the gamma and the faster brain functioning where you're accessing a lot more, but they call it the alpha bridge between delta and of course that is in between those. That allows you to access a lot more of the higher states of functioning. So it's a very complex science actually.

Speaker 2: 27:31

Pulling from your story. These are contained within kind of the brain, right. So as we expand consciousness, there's some part of us that knows, and even the brain knows, how to create coherence in these things. We don't have to figure that out, we just have to be engaging in expanding that awareness and as that happens, things can naturally integrate, become more coherent. We gain access to them. The states themselves will operate at the level they need to, given the situation we're in. There's a knowingness that's deeper than our left hemisphere, right. That we tend to do of worship and I always have this image of our Western civilization has made this left hemisphere like it's a left bicep has become like huge and the right bicep is like tiny right. So it's like we're limiting ourselves when we're not engaging and having a relationship with consciousness and awareness in order for all these things to be activated and integrated.

Speaker 3: 28:26

Yeah, and I think that's the key actually of finding a balance between the best of the left and the right hemispheres, and we're learning more about that all the time. You know it used to be well, the left hemisphere does its analysis logic, but all that's sort of being pushed away as well because we're learning more. But you know, you've got a left and a right hemisphere for a reason For a reason.

Speaker 3: 28:50

And so let's make them work better. So this is why I love the technology at the Institute, because that's exactly what it does. And then things happen and people are able to find themselves and get focused, set new priorities, Think about why they're here. What do they want to do? Do they want to change their goals? Is there something else in their life? Is there more? And there's always more. As you were saying, there's all these different layers of consciousness as you go through, and even I mean, I've been doing this for 30 years and I'm discovering new stuff all the time, and it's not for me personally and I'm thinking this is so exciting. It's the most exciting thing ever, I think. And it's just sort of glossed over by so many people. They don't even think about it. They just think, well, I'm alive, I'm awake and I'm a human. That's it. They've sort of got self-determined limitations that they don't even recognize.

Speaker 2: 29:42

Yeah, the outer form of our awareness is, of course, our attention right and it is being pulled outward all the time by social media and entertainment and disruptions, and that bounces against our conditioning which reacts to that. And if we live in that reality we are unmoored from our power. Exactly, we're not connected to our power. We have to take the time to explore and understand through our own experience and through support like the Monroe Institute provides, to help us really step into greater possibilities.

Speaker 3: 30:17

I was just going to say that's a really good point about all these other things in our lives. I think of them as sort of distractions that are taking us away from something that could really assist us in being more effective and having a more meaningful and joyful life, because I think of them actually as weapons of mass distraction.

Speaker 3: 30:38

So it just takes you away from yourself and I think, well, yeah, but it's about choices. I mean, why are people like us that we've been able to look at this, discover it, work with it, learn more about it and have personal experience and we see the value. But it's very hard to transmit that en masse to others who don't share that passion and that interest, because it's just not on their radar. So that's the trick is to try to get. Well, there's another way of being and just have a look at this and then decide. But it's personal experience because that's how you ground it and you own it. It becomes you and it's an important, integral part of your personal being.

Speaker 2: 31:23

Well said, beautiful said Well. Just to transition a little bit, at some point in your journey you discovered a great passion, which is your exploration of politics and the desire to be part of politics, and this is, this has been kind of your what I guess you discovered through this process of unfoldment. You decided I really want to make a difference in a certain way. What was the catalyst for you to step into that arena of politics that led you to a long career in it?

Speaker 3: 31:51

Yeah, Well, actually it was not something I was consciously trying to do. It had a lot of unintended consequences, but it was an amazing learning experience. But I started. There were a group of very talented energy healers and therapists who'd done a lot of my Monroe workshops here in Cyprus and we thought, well, let's apply our skills doing something a little different. So we thought, well, why don't we start thinking about co-creating a more compassionate, just world? So we would do exercises. We met for a couple of months and we would listen to the Monroe exercises. We would have discussions about, well, what is a more compassionate, just world? What does that mean for you? And we all had different ideas because we're all unique individuals and for me, every single time, I said well, we're not going to have a more just, compassionate world until we have better political leaders. So that was for me, it was very clear, but never, ever considering the possibility. That meant that at some point in the future that was going to be me, that I would have to step into that arena.

Speaker 3: 32:55

But there was a strange, really really bizarre set of circumstances that came up in my community that made it possible for me to get elected to the local council and I thought, whoa, no, no, no, no, I'm a community activist, I'm here, I'm helping people, I speak some Greek, I've been here a long time, I know the lay of the land and a lot of new people come and they get a bit lost and we thought we're just here as a community group to help people. And then elections came up and some of my friends I'm a Green Party member and I was very active in those days because the Green Party, of course, gave us equality, social justice they were interested in what we were doing just at that community work, aside from all the environmental stuff and they said to me your group that you've created at the community level has to field some candidates in the election. If you don't, you've got no credibility. And so, with encouragement from a member of parliament and my husband, I said no, no, this is it, You've got to do it.

Speaker 3: 33:57

So we did and I won the votes. I think I got the booby prize in a way, and I got elected. So it helped me to put into practice a lot of my beliefs about what I thought, about a compassionate world where people are respected, and also about the transparency, corruption I mean, I'm a bit of a crusader when it comes to truth and good governance, accountability, that kind of thing. So it was kind of fun and I was the first woman, the first foreigner ever to be elected in my community, so it was groundbreaking.

Speaker 2: 34:28

And you really were focused on truth, transparency, anti-corruption. What did you learn during the time about the challenges of creating real change within existing political structures? I mean, there you go. Now you're in the middle of the mess if you will yeah, exactly yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:45

Very levels of awareness and consciousness and political leaders and I've met a few, and there's a range of them, from people that are really servant leaders to those that are there for their own and grant aggrandizement. So there you have. We have a range of that. What did you learn during your time, as you stepped in and began? Okay, let me apply this, these understandings and my passion in this area.

Speaker 3: 35:08

Well, there were multiple layers of learning, and one of the things I found out was that you think you may be doing something, but it's actually about something else, and you sort of look at the bigger picture. And it wasn't so much about changing as such. It was more about, first of all, finding out what the hell's going on. These are the elected leaders that are making decisions that affect our everyday life. So that was our main motivation let's get a seat at the table with the guys, let's find out what's going on and have a vote. So that was the main thing. So we found out what was going on, and then we would tell the public which was something very novel in this country. Of course, you're going back quite a few years as well. And well, no, no, no, you're not supposed to tell people what's going on. I said no, I've got elected, I've got a place at the table, that's my remit and that's what I do.

Speaker 3: 36:01

And it sort of caused a few tsunamis, shall we say, and the press was very interested because my little town was fun. They were huge scandals all the time with corruption and all kinds of things. It was amazing and so I would go to the newspapers front page headlines and it was shocking for the existing political structure. But the community loved it and I thought, oh, we're finding out what's going on and I thought, well, I almost became like a stand-up comedian for a while, because some of the stuff that went on you're just like you can't make it up.

Speaker 2: 36:37

You can't make this stuff up.

Speaker 3: 36:39

Yeah, so I'm afraid I enjoyed it a little too much sometimes.

Speaker 2: 36:44

That's okay, though there's a little bit of enjoyment, like when you have people keeping things from the public and you're feeding a hungry populace that we just want to understand how you're there, elected to serve us. What are?

Speaker 2: 36:58

you doing to do that and where are you going astray? That is, taking that service away from us in our whatever tax dollars or whatever away from us and spending it on these silly things that are benefiting you and maybe a few others, but not us, right? I'm curious. You said that the current political structure was probably shocked by that. How did they deal with you? How did that all play out and what was that experience like?

Speaker 3: 37:25

Well, fortunately, I had some allies in our capital, nicosia, because there were a lot of people in Cyprus that thought exactly the way I did about how come on, guys, you've got to serve the people, you've got to tell them what's going on and stop wasting money. And so I had support behind the scenes, otherwise they would have just eaten me up. And this is where my Monroe skills came in, because I found my voice, I had courage and I was fearless. I just thought, for some reason, I'm here, these are my ethics, this is what I think needs to be done, what I need to speak about. And I did.

Speaker 3: 38:00

And I was very high profile because it supported that process. So they got used to me, we all got used to each other, but it really took me out of my comfort zone many occasions, but it strengthened me and it really gave me a lot of new skills, which I'm finding now that because I retired last year after 17 and a half years from that field, but it's opened things up for me to do much more that I think without those skills I learned over the last 17 years, it would have been difficult for me to be doing what I'm doing now with the confidence and ease, and the creative thinking that I have based on the experience of what I learned.

Speaker 2: 38:43

I think that's and you're speaking back to the practical benefits I've seen in my clients who work through the Resilient Leader Method is that there is this courage and conviction that comes. This, this almost a getting over yourself in a certain way and a and also a deeper trust in yourself. That happens and I'm saying well, here, here's, this character has been dropped in this crazy planet earth, you know, and I have these passions and right now I'm not going to apologize for that anymore, because I care and so I'm going to step in. I'm not as afraid anymore, as you said. I love that. That this nature of fearlessness and courage and confidence comes because you begin to realize how powerful you are as well as how powerful others are. So it's not like I become egotistically. I recognize everybody has this amazing set of resources in them that, if I'm curious, I can maybe even help them understand that, or we can work together and align.

Speaker 2: 39:38

Ramana Maharshi said famously that all good qualities arise in the conscious man right these better qualities of ourselves arise and we begin to operate in a collaborative way because we recognize we are, at our core, amazing, and we want to support that, even when there might be differences of opinion. So differences of opinion don't harm us. They're a place for us to challenge ourselves. And also, something you said that I think is really important when you have something big you're up to, you want to find those allies that can have your back and support you and be a place where you get on the phone and talk. I can't believe it that the day and all that you become more immune to the cancel culture, that can happen.

Speaker 2: 40:23

If you're speaking up and shining a light on some very uncomfortable things for others and I think that is a real important thing and you're also speaking to something I think when we first spoke that I loved is that you can't separate this rise of consciousness from operating in the world. The two kind of go hand in hand and we've seen this in some of the spiritual circles. It's the world isn't real. I'm just going to raise my consciousness, I'm unaffected by everything, et cetera, and I'd love you to share a little bit about that because I know you're passionate about it. We just can't go to Monroe Institute workshops all the time and listen to our binaural reads or whatever the invitation is. Once you tap into something, the opportunities to do something with that right. So if you could share a little bit about that, your thoughts on that.

Speaker 3: 41:14

Yeah, and I think you know that that's sort of the key to a lot of the problems we have in the world today, especially at the political governance level, is that people are not operating from that deeper level of awareness and that deeper core self of being much more than just the personality or the body and being connected to everything that is. And because there's this sort of insanity, I tend to think of it like that this is why we have an increasingly crazier world that's not meeting the needs of individuals or communities or countries or even, you know, at the global level and even beyond that. What we're looking at is a really dysfunctional system because of this lack of knowledge and being able to connect with who we really are. So anything we can do to spur awareness and interest in this whole other world, I think is very valuable because it is very practical.

Speaker 3: 42:12

Okay, there's people that want to go off and meditate in a shram in India and they'll have wonderful experiences, but that's fine, but what are you going to do with it as a human being on planet Earth? Is there a bigger picture there? So these are keys to open up new doors of perception and action, and I think, as we sort of find out more about, well, what's really going on. So you're working from a base of knowledge and then you really incorporate that into who you are, into your being, your total being, and then you act with wisdom, right action. That's the basis of the value of that greater knowledge and understanding.

Speaker 2: 42:59

Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but I believe that those who have had control of wealth and resources and they kind of know what's possible in the human being and all these things that are created to distract us and pull us out and divide us, feel like they're being done on purpose, because they don't want people to find out what we're speaking about today, Because if they do, they're in trouble. What they control is going to be less available to them, and I think the media has played a big role in that as a mechanism, and to me it borders on crime against humanity. What's politically, economically and even spiritually from the perspective it feels like humanity is kind of, or a good portion of humanity, is beginning to wake up to these deeper levels of resources and consciousness in us right now. I wonder what your thoughts are on that.

Speaker 3: 44:04

Yeah, I think it's certainly quite possible. I really don't know for sure because, to be honest, I'd like to take a real big, big perspective and go back in our known history and we've always had people that are interested in this sort of that greater awareness and sort of diving into that deeper way of being. We've always had that in our history. At the same time we've also had the corruption and the degradation of ruling leaders and the rise and fall of civilizations. It seems that there's sort of inbuilt cycles that seem to be playing out here on the world. So I'm always sort of respective of that and I'm a big fan of history and ancient history and even some of the things we don't. Really there's a lot we don't know about our own history going way, way back, and I'm thinking Well, we've been told, it isn't true.

Speaker 3: 44:57

Yeah, Well, yeah, exactly, Exactly so, yeah. So I think there is potentially a chance for a real big shift here, but I'm not sure where it's going. We're still in this mid-process and I think we need more people, more allies, that are thinking in these bigger perspectives of what's possible and what's not serving people. With the current structures now, it's not serving us, it's not serving any living species on the planet. I think what's going on? Very, very little.

Speaker 3: 45:29

And I always keep in mind I have this sort of idealistic type vision. Even though I'm not an idealist I'm very pragmatic, very realistic. I still have this vision of what's possible, and that's actually what got me into politics. You know, this could be an ideal community. It could be, it has the potential, but it needs nurturing and support in order to become alive. And so we're at that point now. I think, with what's happening this sort of blossoming of interest in this higher way of functioning and recognition that we are much more it has tremendous potential to bring about a different way of being. So I think we've got a way to go. Yet it might be a bit rocky before we get to that sort of change we're looking for, but I think we have to keep going, keep the goal in mind, because this is worthwhile pursuing and it's always been a goal of our species. It's part of the evolution of human consciousness.

Speaker 2: 46:27

It's an exciting I can I align with that vision. That's why we're talking. You know I have had the same feeling about my passion for leadership development, which has been a long turning. I've been in the profession for 25 years and before that I was awakened by my OD teachers and professors and university to the possibilities. I'm grateful for all of them and everybody I've learned from. And yet there's this sonic times you feel like you're hitting a brick wall when you talk about the subject because there is the busyness and the disruption I'm dealing with. Do I have time for that, all that?

Speaker 2: 47:03

But what you pointed back to is really powerful is translating this higher consciousness in a meaningful action, in action. World is really about you finding what's in this process. As you go through you tap into a deeper calling in yourself. This is one of the common things I see. I think a lot of times in my profession is we put the cart before the horse. So all the coaches out there will say find your purpose, find out what you want to do before the consciousness is affected in the human being. So it becomes a wordsmithing exercise. All the coaches out there will say find your purpose, find out what you want to do before the consciousness is affected in the human being. So it becomes a wordsmithing exercise to get clear on what it is that calls me. And there's even these hacks where you can go online and put in a few words and come up with your purpose statement right.

Speaker 3: 47:46

Really, which is?

Speaker 2: 47:47

yeah, you can get your purpose statement done in two minutes, and to me that's like throwing seeds on concrete right. You have to really be able to spelunk within yourself a little bit, do some of the healing that you've talked about. That happens as people raise their consciousness and disconnect from your conditioning and defrag the hard drive, if you will, and repartition it so that you can kind of tap into this energy in you, this feeling in you that there's something more that you're here to do. Is that fair to say?

Speaker 3: 48:16

Absolutely. I agree completely and I think it's important for people to take into consideration that there are these other possibilities. And it's about someone's intention. I mean, I spoke about vision. You have to think of what's important for you and that's where your intention comes in, your motivation, and we don't realize what powers we have, and we know it's a mental world. I mean we live in our heads, but what's in your head? Let's be a bit more conscious about our thoughts and how we are in the world.

Speaker 2: 48:44

Now you and I both have a mutual friend and colleague who is a co-creator of the Resilient Leader Method with me, anatoly Yakovlev, and you and I both know that true leadership and you demonstrated this in your work in politics isn't just about strategy or figuring it out mentally, and I think what leaders are dealing with today is facing the limitations of that as disruption rises and they're dealing with many more things in their jobs than they did before, and that this rise is needed. And we've been working with Anatoly to develop this method and Anatoly has, as you know, had profound impact on my clients through this method, through the Leadership Resilience Reset that he does. It helps executives navigate this uncertainty and strengthen their resilience and find that greater confidence and that courage and that conviction and finding a deeper level of their voice. From your perspective of knowing Anatoly, what stands out about his abilities to you and what do you see as his unique gift in helping raise consciousness quickly in others so they can get to that stage of having these benefits unfolding for them?

Speaker 3: 49:50

Well, I've really had a lot of fun getting to know Anatoly over the last year because we've been working on some leadership projects and we started talking about this consciousness and I experienced a sound transmission with him and.

Speaker 3: 50:04

I noticed right away I've got a good facility with entering into altered states with my Monroe training and immediately I was just totally focused into this really wild kind of trip which I had with him and I thought, wow, he's got something going here that I haven't seen that before and I thought well, that sort of links in quite nicely with the work at Monroe Institute where we're using sound to alter states of consciousness.

Speaker 3: 50:31

So Anatoly's doing this with his voice and in other ways as well, because I think he's really quite a highly evolved level of consciousness and he's able to transmit that and to affect the level of consciousness of the people that he's working with. And I've certainly experienced that personally. And if you look at the history of sound in our cultures, we've always used sound in very important ways in our societies and cultures, whether it's going back to chanting, drumming circles, sound is an integral part of who we are as human beings. And I think if you can sort of get past the words and just work on the frequencies of the sound itself, and I think this is where his skill comes in, which is pretty unique, and I've certainly found that since I've been working with him and when we did this sound transmission.

Speaker 2: 51:24

Together I've been consolidating and sort of shifting my level of consciousness even more, because there's always more, because you just keep discovering more and more layers and you picked it up because of your work with Monroe and sound and treatment and things like that. So maybe you could talk a little bit about whether it's the technology at Monroe or Anatoly's voice. The understanding is Anatoly's operating in theta.

Speaker 2: 51:47

Most of the time there's a certain thing that happens when he works with our clients that I hear all the time is that about 20 minutes into the conversation I started feeling calmer, more centered. I had a kind of a felt, even almost a dopamine rush in my body. Then they do the reset with him and that then seems to unleash a profound healing in people. If you were to look at your work at Monroe and explain that, what do you think is going on for people that unleashes a kind of self-healing process in them? That was what we describe it as. What do you think is going on there from your understanding of your work?

Speaker 3: 52:24

Yeah, well, you know, earlier when we started this conversation we talked about the neuroplasticity of the brain and how neuroscience is making a lot of changes in the models of how that works and definitely with Monroe Institute, we find that the sound technology that we're using does create new neuronal pathways. Linkage to what Anatoly's gift is as well, because I think what he is able to do is to interact at the neuronal level in the brain with the person he's working with and sort of doing an upgrade that's with his skill and of course it seems to just rewire the brain.

Speaker 3: 53:06

And I think that's just amazing, and we know it's possible. We see that at the Institute as well, and that's how you're able to go out, make the changes, tap into your inner resources. You're releasing obstacles that are holding you back, which your theta is very, very conducive to supporting that. So with Anatoly, he's got this great gift that he's sharing, that is able to access the sort of building new neuronal pathways and the brain has that fluidity that is able to adapt and adjust and then just shift into this much deeper level of functioning.

Speaker 2: 53:41

And you mentioned that, like frequency can be kind of a shortcut versus trying to go through years of therapy or whatever. Whether it's through your Monroe's technology or through the gift that Anatoly has, people wonder well, how can that happen so quickly, like in two an hour sessions? I feel like a completely upgraded. I feel like I'm seven or eight years old again. My neuropathways seem to be reset. How can that happen so quickly? What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3: 54:07

Well, again we come back to how the brain functions and what we're learning about the brain that it's extremely flexible and the brain wants to work better. So it's just saying, oh, thank God, they're finally doing something. It's like, yeah, you're helping your own brain to work better. So I think the brain, this is a natural state and we found like the key.

Speaker 2: 54:29

It's drawn to it. It's like we are drawn to it naturally because that's where we want to get back to, because that's more natural to us.

Speaker 3: 54:35

Yeah, the brain has the capability of doing that and doing much more that we're only just really starting to scrape the surface of that. So it's very exciting and I think it has immense potential to help with the shift that we're looking for as well.

Speaker 2: 54:51

The more rapid the shift, the better right now.

Speaker 3: 54:53

Well, absolutely that's right. We've been waiting a long time, I think, and it's overdue. So let's just keep our intention and our goals very clear. Keep focused on the potential benefits of this that we can support, to get it out there more, so that more and more people are able to access their own natural capabilities and just sort of become alive and awake in new ways.

Speaker 2: 55:21

It's a much more fun way to live, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 55:23

Oh isn't it, it is so exciting to explore these, to open these, and it's right inside you, it goes back to the kingdom of heaven, is inside you. It truly is. It's a literal translation. It's not like some metaphor. The capacity that we have within us is much more interesting than catching up on the news or watching some entertaining film, which is nothing wrong with that. But there's a lot of entertainment and joy and opportunities within ourselves too that also benefit our lives in real, practical ways. One of the things you also spoke about is this idea that it's not just about small fixes. It's about reimagining everything. So that's a big statement right there reimagining everything. We were to design leadership and governance from a consciousness-first perspective. You know, if we just like consciousness-firstive, what might that look like to you?

Speaker 3: 56:12

Well, it's a big open field because we need a whole new model.

Speaker 3: 56:17

And Buckminster Fuller spoke about that, the famous American architect and philosopher and inventor. He said you can't fix a system that's dysfunctional. You need to create a new model. So this is something that I'm quite interested in, especially when you look at it from the basis of your level of consciousness. So what would a more conscious world look like? So people would have more respect for each other because we would recognize that we're all sharing a consciousness in a way that in everyday life people don't. They get blindsided, they get locked into destructive behaviors because they've forgotten who they really are.

Speaker 3: 56:54

But if we had a world where people understood what the basis of our real reality is and you know, if you look back I mean, we've got the famous physics scientists back in the 1950s, like Einstein, they're half a dozen we're saying there is no such thing as matter. So could you imagine? Here we're constructing an imaginal world with a new model that understands that there's much more than this sort of experience. That well, it's solid, I feel it, I touch it, my senses understand it. But there is nothing out there, it is all in inside, and that's the basis of true knowledge and understanding. And this isn't anything new. And you've got your history, with meditation in India, and all of this as well, and this is not a new concept. This is the study of the mind and it provides us with the real knowledge. But we would have that in a conscious world. So I look at this and I think well, if we're all conscious and aware of that, we're not going to have war, we're not going to be mean to each other because we're recognizing who we are.

Speaker 3: 58:00

It would be a quite totally different world.

Speaker 2: 58:03

We have some people that want to fix the system and they come up with very elaborate, out-of-the-box ways to do that very elaborate, out-of-the-box ways to do that and that tends to meet with a lot of resistance, because the world is the way the world is and conditioning is the way the world is. You have other people that may want to check out, leave, meditate in a cave forever and just forget the world, but that doesn't have any impact. There is an integration that happens to happen between the two is what I hear you saying but it starts with consciousness. It starts with recognizing who we really are and from that everything can be reimagined.

Speaker 2: 58:36

Technology, the way that we structure governance and communicate to our populace and see our primary jobs as politicians is not to enrich ourselves but to enrich those that sent us to do our job. So all that gets changed and it starts with kind of recognizing who we are and expanding this amazing capacity which Anatoly says you know. Once you understand it and you start experiencing it, you kind of own it in a certain way. You're not the owner of all consciousness, but you are the purveyor of yours, and then you can start playing and having fun with it and all the benefits that come to that we talked about. Well, this has been just such a powerful conversation. We could go on for hours and hours.

Speaker 3: 59:14

Yeah we could yeah.

Speaker 2: 59:16

And I really always enjoy talking to you. But, as we wrap up, for those who are feeling called by this conversation to deepen their own journey into consciousness and a conscious leadership, what would you recommend as kind of first steps or what they could do to begin to explore that in a way that would serve them most?

Speaker 3: 59:35

Well, I think the ancient Greeks had a nice expression. It was know thyself.

Speaker 2: 59:39

So get to know who you really are.

Speaker 3: 59:42

I think that was at the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, and I think that's your starting point, because if you want to be active in the world and be productive, you need to be working from a solid core of knowledge of who you really are, and then you can break out from there if you want to be effective, and I think you also need to have a very clear vision and an intention, because you can really get lost in the weeds as well.

Speaker 3: 1:00:09

So you want to keep focused and, I think, keep it simple as well. That's why I like that know thyself, because I thought, you know, there's really nothing new, and I mean that was like 2000 years ago in ancient Greece. So I'm thinking that has a lot of meaning for me because it's basic. So, if someone is looking at, well, I want to do something with my life. Well, and you know, this was one of my starting points when I was back in my 20s Well, I want to get in touch with who I am, because what's the point of all this other stuff if I don't even know me? And so I did that through meditation and reading and traveling and just learning all the time. If you have an appetite for knowledge, true knowledge, and that's hard today because there's so much censorship and propaganda.

Speaker 3: 1:00:54

You've really got to be able to swim through a lot of obstacles, but that's where your true consciousness can be developed. You're going to develop intuitive skills. You will know what's right for you and where the other stuff is that's coming in. That's not. It's not true. It doesn't have value for you. So it's about developing your own gut feeling and your own psychic abilities, really, which you can do by tapping your inner resources.

Speaker 2: 1:01:22

And it goes back to how do we get back to trusting ourselves first before we trust information or what other people are saying. And not that we shut that out, but we have a society that's waiting for the experts to save us, and when we are the ones that can actually and along the journey, it's good to have people that are a few steps ahead of you to guide you and so If they are truly ahead of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:01:47

Well, you need some cognitive functioning here and discernment.

Speaker 2: 1:01:50

Yes, that discernment. That's a real key one. For those out there that may be interested in seeing what the Monroe Institute and how it could help them with this process and journey, what would you suggest they consider as first steps in engaging the Institute and it's great services.

Speaker 3: 1:02:05

Well, there's a big website with a lot of information. It's monroeinstituteorg. I would recommend the Gateway Voyage, which is our foundational entry retreat, that you're there for six nights, five, six nights and it's the foundation of Exploring Consciousness, the Monroe Way. There's also there's community groups with Monroe trainers, outreach communities, we call them. So there's a lot of free things that they can do with, say, an outreach trainer that might be in their community.

Speaker 3: 1:02:36

You can find all of this on the website. You can check where you live and see who's doing anything, and a lot of that is free. And there's also a new Expand app that came out a few years ago that has a lot of free samples of the Monroe Sound Science and the binaural beat technology and other science we have. You can subscribe for free. You can get it on Google Play. It's called Expand E-X-P-A-N-D app and that will give you a good introduction to the possibilities of the sound technology. And, if you want, you can be a subscriber to Expand and then you'll have a lot more selections that are available for you, and then you'll have a lot more selections that are available for you, I'll make sure those are noted below in the website description.

Speaker 2: 1:03:17

So if people want to go to the website or connect with that app, they'll have that information below in the description.

Speaker 3: 1:03:24

We've also got weekend, saturday and Sunday retreats all over the world, so there's quite a lot of trainers in the USA as well. So look up, see where you live and see if there's anybody doing workshops. And they're very reasonably priced, and it's a good way to dip your toe in, where you can experience the sound technology that way.

Speaker 2: 1:03:44

Any final thoughts you just want to share before we close the conversation today.

Speaker 3: 1:03:48

Well, I think we've covered quite a lot. You've really given me plenty of airspace here to mouth off on a lot of things, so I think I've pretty much covered my full intention was to do so Well, I thank you for that.

Speaker 2: 1:03:58

I have a lot to share.

Speaker 3: 1:03:59

Yeah, I just wish everybody the best and that they can enjoy a beautiful life and just get out there, explore, really find out who you are.

Speaker 2: 1:04:10

Very good, well said Well, linda, thank you so much for this conversation, your journey insights. It's a much needed perspective on challenges and opportunities we're facing, and I know this is just the beginning of many more dialogues to come. I see you in the future joining our team and having conversations with our team on the show For those out there listening. If today's conversation resonated with you, please share this with someone else that needs to hear it. We're at a pivotal moment in human history, and the choices we make now, both individually, collectively, will literally shape our future. Until next time, stay aware, stay engaged, stay unfazed under fire. This is David Craig-Otts, a leadership alchemist, signing off for today, wishing you a great rest of your day, take care.