Speaker 1: 0:11

Welcome to Unfazed Under Fire, a podcast designed to elevate your leadership and amplify your impact. Each episode offers valuable insights to help you transform your vision into reality, cultivate high-performing cultures that attract top talents, and navigate the complexities of today's uncertain, chaotic world with confidence and clarity. Now tuning into your needs, here's your host and moderator, seasoned executive coach and leadership alchemist, david Craig Utz.

Speaker 2: 0:44

What are the things you believe most fiercely about yourself or about life aren't actually true and worse what if they're quietly holding you? Back. Welcome back to Unfaced Under Fire a podcast dedicated to helping leaders cultivate clarity, consciousness and courage under pressure. I deeply appreciate you turning in and I'm excited to jump into today's conversation. I'm your host, david Craig-Otts, and I'm joined again by my two incredible co-hosts. Ryan McShane, founder and principal of HR Evolution and Antola Yakovlev founder of World Without Corruption and the co-creator of the Resilient Leader Method.

Speaker 2: 1:21

Now, if you're, just tuning in, we're in the middle of a three-part series exploring the hidden power of beliefs the ones that fuel our leadership and the ones that can quietly limit it. In episode one, we've explored how beliefs shape our outcomes, often without us realizing it. Now, today, we're going to go deeper. We'll explore what beliefs actually are, why they are so sticky, why we sometimes defend them even when they're harming us, and how they quietly script our identity, leadership, behaviors and how we can leverage the power of belief to raise our impact as leaders.

Speaker 2: 1:55

Let's kick off today by really getting clear about what beliefs actually are and why understanding them can change everything, because before we talk about freeing ourselves from old beliefs and living from more empowering ones.

Speaker 2: 2:09

We need to understand exactly what they are and why they feel so real when they aren't grounded in fact. So let's look at this word belief or believe and what it means. We know that beliefs drive our attention and actions. It's impossible not to live out of beliefs, but the definition of belief is accepting something as true without proof, and the root of believe is belie, which means to misrepresent. So, gentlemen, is it going too far to say that all beliefs are lies?

Speaker 4: 2:40

That's a great question. Wow. It's almost like the lies that we need to tell ourselves in order to operate in this world, and it's largely based on our experience. I often talk about in my training classes for leaders around conflict management is if you grew up in a household where your parents the way they dealt with conflict was to yell at each other to raise their voice and get aggressive, then you believe, consequently, that that's how you deal with conflict.

Speaker 4: 3:08

So it's largely that those initial exposures that you've had in life that frame how you view the world around you and consequently you adopt, consciously or unconsciously, those beliefs in terms of how you operate.

Speaker 2: 3:22

So we have to operate out of them, as you pointed to there, and they're part of being human right. It's a way that we operate. We would need a brain the size of a skyscraper to actually see reality as it is. That's what neuroscience has said. So we have to live out of interpretation, and that interpretation a lot of times is formed in a certain way out of survival mode, right. So the question is, why are they so sticky?

Speaker 4: 3:48

Well, I hope I don't get too preemptive, because I think the stickiness is what we tell ourselves, related to those beliefs in terms of how we view ourselves, and this is a part of the identity that I know that we're going to be talking about. To give you a quick example of that, my name is Ryan McShane. My lineage is Irish and German, so I grew up believing that I'm a drinking machine, and I grew up around people that you know. Socially we're drinking machines. That was very acceptable, the kind of you know social interactions, and, you know, when those things started to become problems for me, I had trouble letting go of it because of it being embedded in my identity.

Speaker 4: 4:29

If I'm not this person, if I'm not who I think I am, then ultimately what's that make me be? And you know, the blessing and the curse of it was. You know, while it was difficult, really forced me to examine why do I believe the way I believe, why do I think I am what I think I am, and that, in and of itself, were the kind of questions that really caused me to be much more conscious and examine my beliefs and start to orient myself towards things that actually better serve me instead of the beliefs that don't serve me and the people around me.

Speaker 4: 5:02

So that was a great experience, to be honest with you, one of my hardest experiences, but also one of my greatest and most fulfilling experiences and ultimately helped me level up, and I think that you can see that in a professional context as well, when you think that a leader is someone who has to have all the answers. Well, how does that? Limit you as a leader, and how does that create negative impact on your team that should follow you?

Speaker 2: 5:25

I appreciate you sharing that story. I think all human beings can relate to that, something that hooks us that we think we ought to stop. It could be drinking or an addiction, it could be. You know the way that we orient as a leader when we get upset and reactive, the way that we orient as a leader when we get upset and reactive, have our backs against the wall, etc. Which we've talked about reasons why that's escalating during these times. I'm thinking this would be a good one for you to talk to Anatolia, which is the other thing. When we think about beliefs is there's this emotional charge to them and we feel that emotional charge in our body. So there's this emotional, physical connection to beliefs that make them feel real, like there's a saber-toothed tiger walking into the room right now, even though there isn't, but it feels like a saber-toothed tiger is walking in the room and we can't help ourselves.

Speaker 2: 6:20

So I'd love you to speak to that a little bit about how they interact with our emotionality and our nervous system to make them feel so real. What's that about?

Speaker 5: 6:29

Well, think about this. Like you know, for beliefs to actually take root, they need to be emotionally charged, right? So to be emotionally charged means that our neuronal system gets involved, which goes back to the original Hebbian rule Neurons that fire together wire together.

Speaker 3: 6:47

Okay, so there we go.

Speaker 5: 6:49

So those blessed children who had invisible friends in their childhood, right, I mean, with growing up they didn't have real kids to hang out with. Hang out with invisible friends, you know. Some of them were lucky, like hanging out with a boogeyman, thinking like, oh, that's my friend, so he really digs me. So the emotional charge would form around our response to whatever is perceivable by us.

Speaker 1: 7:14

right Even we could treat our invisible friend as the one that sort of like communicates with us right.

Speaker 5: 7:20

And helps us form our belief systems as we grow up. The degree of that emotional charge is important because most of our beliefs about the world and our self-perception comes from our early childhood how we were treated, how we were trying to defend ourselves. You know the rudimentary defensive ego system before the identity came on top right.

Speaker 5: 7:48

So we were like mired in that constant struggle as a toddler what do I do, how do I stay alive, how do I not get you know? Yelled at. That creates a lot of emotional kind of buffer. And then, as we were growing up, especially when it comes to identity, which is normally formed during our adolescent period of time, then the foundational emotional charge sits at the time when we're trying to learn about ourselves and learn about our world. That's why it's so sticky, that's why it's almost impossible to let go.

Speaker 2: 8:23

Thinking that many times. We know that these beliefs are operating in us and getting in our way. As you do grow your self-awareness that begins to be. I recognize that I'm doing some things and if I'm maybe working with somebody that can help me see more clearly around that, I look at my own trauma when I was a toddler. I was a very active toddler and very effervescent, enthusiastic and bouncing around all the time and I would get out of my crib at night and my parents were baffled by it.

Speaker 2: 8:54

Now, my dad was a fix-it guy. He wasn't necessarily a bad guy, he's a fix-it guy. He says how can we stop this? Oh, let's tie a roof on David's crib at night. And they also were reading Dr Spock at the time, which said just let your kids cry yourself to sleep. Now they just added a kerosene to that fire. They put me in a crib, put a roof on top of my crib and then walked away. So here is a two-year-old toddler who has his parents putting him in this prison at night, locking him in, walking away, turning out the lights and letting him cry self-destruct.

Speaker 2: 9:31

Now, if you look at what we know about children in that situation, they will start by crying and complaining Doesn't cause any problems, but then what happens is, if they're not attended to, they go to rage. So I was crying myself to sleep in rage every night. That had an impact on my nervous system. I'm not like blaming my parents for this.

Speaker 2: 9:55

The idea is is that that sets something in my nervous system around how I oriented to life right and how I saw everything and what I would like to talk about. There's layers to these beliefs. So for years, because what happens when that happens to a child is, at a certain point they shut down and so that rage got buried deep and I had all kinds of other beliefs, like I'm not good enough, I'm not worthy, I think life is unfair, and I tended to those beliefs. But it took me a long time to get to that core one because it was so buried deep and so frozen under the ice, if you will, that no matter what I did with the layers above, it didn't get to that core one. So even if we work on kind of higher level, disempowering beliefs, how am I getting to that? Core one actually keeps us improved, better able to deal with life, more flexible, maybe more self-aware, but still operating from that deep unconscious level.

Speaker 4: 11:01

Basically, you feel like you're not good enough. Okay, and with that notion it's called imposter syndrome and absolutely we've probably all heard of that imposter syndrome and the foundation, like I said, is you feel like you're not good enough.

Speaker 4: 11:18

And if you came up with very critical parents, that's an easy notion to adopt. You know you're never winning their love and affection unless you do it this way or do it that way. So it's highly conditional and as a result of that, I experience a lot of people like that in my walk of life from a coaching standpoint and a leadership standpoint, and you know the impact of that from a professional. You know aspect obviously has some ripple effects on not only the individual but everyone outside of that individual and how they show up and how they interact and how they relate. That's, I think, emphasizing the point that you've made here, that that's a more common belief than you might well expect in many people. Here you have accomplished leaders who have gone on to these prestigious roles with these prestigious titles, but embedded deeply within them still remains these kind of traumas or these kind of victim mentalities, and I've seen that in all different walks of life.

Speaker 4: 12:13

I was at a social setting last year where two gentlemen were talking with one another and one had challenged another's historical perspective on who they were as a person, and the triggering happened immediately to such an extent that it became volatile and the person got up and left the social setting and said hey, wife, we're leaving, we're out of here.

Speaker 4: 12:36

I'm not going to put up with this kind of thing. You're not going to tell me who I am. That type of thing is what he had pointed fingers and a rage, shaking and saying all this kind of stuff. But what it really came down to was this person was so identified with their victim mentality that they could not see that that was a part of their identity and ultimately why they became so triggered. And through innocence you know the guy put his foot in his mouth the way he said what he said but through innocence he was basically trying to challenge this person's victim mentality and that was intolerable from this other person's perspective and consequently it became an emotionally triggering event and you know he had to leave the environment because of that. And now, unfortunately, later on, they kind of made amends and came back together and recognized that they both kind of went in the wrong direction and how they communicated and shared with one another.

Speaker 3: 13:28

But I think that's all too common.

Speaker 2: 13:30

The issue of imposter syndrome is something that I deal with in my coaching all the time and I think the higher the level that a leader goes, the more pressure they experience if they don't deal with that you could be rising in your career and hit a wall.

Speaker 1: 13:47

Maybe you're a senior leader and there's another senior leader.

Speaker 2: 13:50

That's worse than you and all of a sudden they don't like you, or you're in a situation where expectations have risen beyond or changed or flipped, and you were a superstar, and all all of a sudden now you can't do anything right, and that happens all the time and you pointed to, like a situation where people are actually able to come back together and process it, because they couldn't overcome that.

Speaker 2: 14:24

It's because we're intolerant to it in many ways Because, quite frankly, of our trauma, we become intolerant of somebody who doesn't lose compassion. And it's all fixable through a lot of times through conversation and being vulnerable with each other and talking.

Speaker 3: 14:39

Of course we don't have time to be vulnerable around here.

Speaker 2: 14:42

Anything you want to add to what we're talking about here. Antoli, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Speaker 5: 14:46

Well, it's interesting because I've seen, observed, no witnessed situations when top executives you know lost their jobs just because of that level of, you know, emotional trauma that probably was seated somewhere deeper because of their childhoods and you know, when you get into a heated argument or you were dealing with your peers and stuff and if you can't really think quick on your feet, so that level of trauma suddenly goes up and prevents you from performing up to certain standards, and I've seen people kind of question burn because of that.

Speaker 5: 15:21

Just because of the heated argument they would lose their footing because of some stupid childhood trauma that they never processed.

Speaker 3: 15:29

And I had a discussion with one of them.

Speaker 5: 15:31

I said look, you made to this point. You were making so much money and all that, but you never invested in your own development. That stupid situation caused you to lose your job because you never really paid attention to those potential potholes that you never really addressed. So that was a very good example of how, like you said, David, it can cause people their jobs just because they never really paid attention to those things they experienced growing up. So it could be quite dramatic sometimes.

Speaker 2: 16:06

If you look at their trajectory, how they got to where they're at, they're clearly demonstrating competence, the ability to add value and again it goes back to we react based on something else. You know you could be rising and something negative happens, and the elephant never seems to forget the negative things. If somebody saves your life, three minutes later you forget about it. We seem to have a short-term memory for the positive things and a long-term memory for the negative things and going back to last week.

Speaker 1: 16:37

We talked about the Pygmalion effect.

Speaker 2: 16:39

So now something happens, you're reacting out of your trauma about it and that's a powerful memory you're reacting out of. And all of a sudden you start seeing that person differently and now you're looking for. Well, maybe I misjudged that person, even though they've worked with me for five years. I better keep my eye on them Now. Your beliefs are now orienting to look for the problem, and what you look for you tend to find Confirmation bias.

Speaker 2: 17:05

Yeah, it's a confirmation bias and again, negative seems to drive the bus as far as what we tend to pay attention to more than the positive things and that's unfortunate.

Speaker 2: 17:17

And I point back to where we want to create more humane workplaces, places that orient around the humanity that's in them, and we tend to preach the gospel of that in my profession. This is where we get into those challenges, into this abyss of trauma, and at some level it makes sense. We should try to be more humane around here, more compassionate around here, balancing empowerment with accountability. That sounds good, but how do I do that? And I'm left to my own devices to try to figure that out. And if it's complicated to figure out, that's out the window. It's not informing my actions, not informing my behavior Any thoughts on

Speaker 4: 17:55

that I'd like to share another kind of perspective on this. You mentioned about empathy and compassion, but if we've seen anything in the last five years is the weaponization of empathy and compassion On the other hand, if you're a good person, you will do this X, Y and Z, and that has no relevance or basis in reality either. If you're a good person, you're going to stand six feet away from someone during this COVID epidemic.

Speaker 4: 18:26

Well, we know now that that was based on no science whatsoever. It was just made up by someone and they just kind of ran with it. If you're a good person, you're going to do this or do that and you want to take care of grandma, don't you?

Speaker 3: 18:38

You want to make sure that your neighbor's safe.

Speaker 4: 18:40

OK, then you're going to do these things safe. Okay, then you're going to do these things. So we've got to be also recognize that aspect of compassion and empathy and how we have to recognize that some of those things are not necessarily true to nature and we need to be critical in our evaluation, not only of what's being projected upon us but our own thoughts around those things. Why do we think the way we think and I think that's a healthy exercise for anybody to engage in and I don't know that I think one of the biggest detriments that, as American, society is we don't spend enough time in reflection, we don't examine and go back and say, well, what was today like, how did it work out?

Speaker 4: 19:20

Well, what did I do well, what did I not do well, what could have been done differently? As a result of that, we're just an action based society, so we're always on to the next thing, and I see that in corporate America. I see that you know true to the individual, and something that I always practice when I led committees and groups and projects is we would have you know an exit, kind of debrief, and everything that we did and we examined those kind of things.

Speaker 4: 19:44

What do we want to do different next time? What did we really knock out of the park this time? What are some things that we want to sidestep and avoid, should we have this project again and I think that that's a healthy way to interact with the world around us is reflect on it. That is where the true learning takes place. When you examine what is learning and what takes place in an individual, we're integrating new experiences into what we've already built into our framework. And you talk about an operating system oftentimes. Sometimes that entire operating system needs to change based on our experiences.

Speaker 2: 20:20

Absolutely, the research shows that that leadership operates at a higher level of operating system or consciousness. I'm thinking also in what you're saying. We look at where could we have done a better job of giving space for individuals to show up in a more empowered way. Look at how certainly the.

Speaker 2: 20:46

US school systems were built, rockefeller wanted people to get ready for the workforce. We didn't need bells to know how to change classes. In my day I got paddled at school for misbehaving. We had created punitive environments because Rockefeller, who was one of the architects of the original educational system, which still exists for the most part today, wanted to create a structure and an environment that would prepare people to be obedient. So we've had a school system that's traumatized people. That's just the truth. And the bells and the getting in trouble and going to the principal's office and you know, sitting at these desks, you know certain line, you think about it. Well, that was kind of getting them ready to go to work at a factory or whatever. It's funny, david.

Speaker 4: 21:29

I read something online a few years ago and, being a student of psychology, this just tickled me. It talks about a student sitting in a class in high school learning about Pavlov's dog, and how he laughed and how he thought oh this stupid dog. Every time he rings a bell, the dog starts salivating, and as we were learning about this, the bell rang in the class and we all got up and left.

Speaker 2: 21:53

Exactly, exactly. We were being trained.

Speaker 1: 21:56

If you look at, Montessori schools.

Speaker 2: 21:59

They create a different kind of environment for a kid where they can explore their creativity, understand what their talents are, be in more loving, caring environments. They're still very rigorous, but in a different way and you know. You see people, you know sending their kids there because at some level they knew that that wasn't necessarily the way that we structured schools and supporting us.

Speaker 4: 22:23

Well, you mentioned about the Rockefellers as well, and you know their entire design of the educational system was not to create critical thinkers.

Speaker 2: 22:30

It was to create workers. Yes, sir, yes, sir, yes, ma'am, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 22:36

And that distinction needs to be made clearly and loudly for anyone. You know, just because you've gone through formal education does not make you smart. Typically, it makes you very compliant, and so you know. You can see why we have so many yes people in corporate America yes, sir, no sir, yes boss, no boss type of thing and meanwhile they go home and complain and gripe about their employment experience. And what does that do?

Speaker 4: 23:00

It creates a natural divide in ourselves too, because we feel like we have to put a mask on, and I see that mask exhibited all the time in a professional environment. And I've just the way I think and reflect is I have always wanted to be in an environment where I felt like I did not need to wear that mask and to be truly authentic and show up in an authentic way, and I don't know that people feel like they have that luxury. I think some people might call me naive for thinking that I can show up authentically and not be judged. I think what it comes down to is are you in the right environment? If you have to wear a mask to exist in that environment, you may want to think about whether that environment coheres to your values.

Speaker 2: 23:43

Well, you know, one of the compensations I came up with because of my unexamined rage was to be a rebel, and rebels aren't appreciated. Now I would say that I need to soften that. But there was always this outside looking in because I was challenging everything and, surprise, surprise, I became an entrepreneur because I couldn't be in those environments. And now I'm coaching people in those environments and I offer a fresh perspective because of that. As we move on, I want to. One more question here is so if all beliefs are unprovable and kind of lies, what does it take to create beliefs that empower rather than imprison us and keep us in a reactive place? Thoughts on that, and I told you you want to take that one a little bit. What does it take to create beliefs that empower rather than imprison us?

Speaker 5: 24:30

You have to think about going all the way back to your childhood, early childhood, and find a way to rewire the entire system that was set up originally by you from the very early days. That was set up originally by you from the very early days. Now, how can you do that? Like digging through layers upon layers and layers of what your current identity is like. I mean, that would be almost impossible to do.

Speaker 5: 25:00

However, like you guys observed, making things a little bit easier removing certain outdated beliefs, crashing our ego system, all of that that could be the cause of this upheaval to the way we perceive ourselves. So it's like we're going to whisk away one core belief or another. This is more like bringing down the entire house of cards.

Speaker 3: 25:39

So this is kind of risky.

Speaker 5: 25:41

The only way it could be done if you start really addressing your ego, first you know, soften it a bit to understand that you can observe and process your own thoughts and beliefs from a bit of a detached way and as you do that well, the only reason, the only way it could be done, if you really start moving up your consciousness level. So with expansion of consciousness, your ego starts losing its hold on you, and then your identity, which is less rigid than your ego suddenly you can play with that stuff.

Speaker 5: 26:19

Just to give you an example, for somebody who is really close to the very top of the consciousness system, you may say like okay, well, how does that make you feel? Well, technically, because your ego is kind of dissolved almost. It creates a paradox sometimes, Like nothing gets to you, Like I nearly got run over by the car yesterday, but it didn't get to me. Everybody around freaked out because the car just went right at me and I just kind of stepped aside at the last moment.

Speaker 1: 26:49

But I didn't feel anything stir up inside.

Speaker 5: 26:52

It's like okay it doesn't get to me, so the ego once the ego is gone, then your entire perception of yourself is different which means like there's no reactivity, there's no adverse reaction, nothing. So then we'll be talking about identity today right, this is another construct, mental construct, so all of that stuff. But again back to your question, david to go all the way on your own and try to do something about your fundamental belief systems. I don't think that's possible for a human, just like. Okay. Well, I want to do something about it.

Speaker 5: 27:29

Because we've been told many times that if we go through certain training self-discovery, self-reflection some people go and embrace some hypnotic suggestion or NLP or anything that will help rewire our belief systems. However, most people don't touch it with a 10-foot pole, right? Well, how many of you would agree? Well, you'll be, hypnotized, or they'll use NLP, like neuro-linguistic programming, to rewire the way you think Would you sign up for that willingly?

Speaker 5: 28:01

Would you trust the person to put better stuff in your subconscious mind than that you currently have? So you see all the tools existent today to ostensibly help us do something about it. We may not view them as trustworthy enough to empower us to do it.

Speaker 2: 28:25

I think that you know. Robert Schultz's work of internal family systems shows our ego structures are multiple parts to them and there are a big, big aspect of those are protectors, and what you're speaking to is, at some level, depending on how we take that structure down, it's scary and there are actual parts within ourselves that are protecting the boundaries of looking at that which would actually free us as you're pointing to.

Speaker 2: 28:53

So you want to be very conscious about what you do about this. There are means out there, but you want to be conscious about how to do it and, again, some of them take a lot of time, which is confronting to a busy executive.

Speaker 2: 29:06

We know now how beliefs shape our reality, and the most powerful and stubborn beliefs are the ones called around who we are, and one of the most powerful philosophical questions that Socrates posed is who am I right? And that the greatest pursuit is to know thyself and what you're pointing to, and our identity and how we think about it is the most powerful set of beliefs that hold our attention, direct our actions and, ultimately, is what executive?

Speaker 2: 29:36

presence is all about. As you expand executive presence you pointed to, as consciousness expands, awareness expands and executive presence is not. Hey, I have charisma, I know what to say, I show up confidently all those outdated ways of talking about executive presence which I kind of giggle at. It really truly is being able to be fully in the moment, assessing what's actually happening and knowing that in that moment the solution is there. I've just got to explore it. I might be exploring with my team and asking questions and, okay, let's dive down on what the real problem is. That's executive presence and that's based in our identity. So in the last show, we emphasized the truth that many of our core beliefs were formed during early years.

Speaker 2: 30:21

So how does identity form around our early beliefs? How does our personality and the sense of who we think we are form?

Speaker 1: 30:28

around our early beliefs.

Speaker 4: 30:29

So I throw that out there to you, gentlemen. There's a concept that says to define something is to limit something, and I think that that's ultimately what we do.

Speaker 3: 30:39

Is we limit ourselves when we?

Speaker 4: 30:41

view ourselves from these perspectives of identity, and it creates a natural rigidity in us that I am this and when we experience things in life that contradict what we believe to be ourselves and our identity.

Speaker 3: 30:55

That's what causes?

Speaker 4: 30:56

us that pain, and that's the double-edged sword. You know, it's a beautiful thing that it actually causes that pain, because then that creates a need within us to start to introspect. Why am I?

Speaker 4: 31:09

experiencing this pain Because of the conflict between what I believe to be myself and the reality that exists beyond that. When Eckhart Tolle told us you know, most things that we experience are not what we think they are. They're signposts that point to a deeper truth. And I think that every time we experience a challenge to our identity, that is a signpost pointing us to a deeper truth to look more deeper, to really reflect and examine that identity, to become a little more malleable and you talk about that executive presence in terms of being that malleable and not being so rigid and being flexible and being as curious as possible.

Speaker 4: 31:49

I think that that's akin to really the reflection kind of component, and where we truly learn is if you already think everything, and that's where identity comes in. You think who you are, guess what. That yet has yet to be really proven out in many people, and just the concept of you don't think, you don't really know yourself oh my gosh. That is triggering to a lot of people as well, because they talk about a life unexamined is not worth living. Well, there's a lot of truth to that as well, because you can't grow, you can't learn, you can't become flexible if you're not constantly self-critiquing and self-evaluating and we learn from this in terms of emotional intelligence and the concepts of emotional intelligence.

Speaker 4: 32:31

There's self-management, but there's social management and how you interact and relate to other people, but it all starts with yourself. You can't lead others until you start to lead yourself, and this is a concept that came out of a recent book that I read called Leader's Code, by Dr Ken Chapman, who really espoused this principle very clearly and well in this book, and I think it resonates for me, as well as any reader, that you have to start with yourself, and it talks about making sure that if you're going to pour that cup out for other people, you got to make sure that cup's filled in order to pour it out, and I think we have a lot of leaders who are trying to pour out for other people who haven't yet filled their pockets.

Speaker 2: 33:09

As well, said, anything that comes after I am, it tends to be one we'll die on the hill for Like, if you're challenging that, and it isn't like people are consciously thinking this. Right, we talked about the reactivity that's come out of this nervous system that believes this to be true because it feels it.

Speaker 3: 33:26

It experiences and the sensations and emotions in our body.

Speaker 2: 33:30

This is maybe you all hear this as well. This is a gentle process in coaching when we talk about these things. But when I say, have you noticed that your overemphasis on checking the checkboxes off and achieving and your individual reward you get from that is blocking you from being more supporting collective achievement and empowerment. And I'll get this comment well, that's just the way I am. That's just the way I am. And the question is is that working?

Speaker 2: 33:59

It's easy to ask the question is this working but it goes back to I'm dying on that hill. Of that I am, that I believe I am.

Speaker 4: 34:05

In this setting, we don't typically get too non-sectarian and bring in any kind of religion or speak of faith, but we talk. God talks about I am the great I am, but he doesn't qualify what I am is, and that's the point. Is everything that you say after the word I am starts to qualify or quantify how you view yourself, and God stopped it saying I am the great I am, I am that I am, and it leaves that broad definition yet to be defined. And I think that's really the point is, once we start defining those things, we limit them significantly, and then we create identities and rigidity around that, and so we've got to be very careful as to what we put after that I am your thoughts on anatoly and the power of identity.

Speaker 5: 34:53

Well, sometimes it's the thinking like uh, having the ego and identity, whether it's like a personal perception, social construct on top of that is, it would be difficult to deal without it I'll just give an example.

Speaker 5: 35:05

Imagine your ego dissolves and your identity dissolves. Right, how are you going to like fare in this life If you don't really care? Kind of go with the flow. Nothing gets to you. You're kind of guru to yourself. I don't think the outcome of this approach will be good in our current social settings, because you would expect other people to kind of give you credit. Okay, well, nothing gets to you. You're a cool guy, but other than being a cool guy, there's nothing to you. There's no ambition, there's no heart, in a sense of like projecting yourself. There's nothing right, you're just completely kind of like in suspension mode. So going back to do.

Speaker 5: 35:45

We need this. And what's the healthy dosage? Let's say healthy dosage of ego or identity. How much can we relate to what we've got? Where do we draw the line? This could become quite unbearable if you start thinking about it right. Or how do I manage those red lines, lines in the sand? Where do I stop? How do I keep it balanced? It just saves too much of my energy. So, in this existence that we have as humans, again, this is what the whole journey is all about Discovering, self-discovery, learning what it's like, honing the skills, finessing what we've got. Keep going up.

Speaker 2: 36:29

That's the only way. There's stepping stones towards that right. You don't want to just pull the bottom card out of the house of cards and let it all fall down. Nobody would want to do that, as you pointed to, and sometimes we get ourselves in trouble by doing some methods, as you said, like hypnosis or NLP. In trouble by doing some methods, as you said, like hypnosis or NLP, depending on the individual doing that, where that can cause some challenges and it can be an unhealthy move, it's very important to focus on.

Speaker 2: 36:59

I have a client that has been brilliant. He's created what he calls the governor, and the governor knows the rules of play.

Speaker 2: 37:07

And the governor knows that in the past I've opened my mouth too soon. Well, we now have a rule in place we listen before we speak, and so there's a set of rules that get created and actually, he engages the governor. He has a person, he has a relationship with it and he talks to it before he goes into meetings, like, okay, what do we have to do? And actually, quite frankly, a lot of the coaching up to this point to be, quite frankly, was helping people build governors. We were giving people. Here's the rules of the game. You're nice to people Before you give them feedback, set the context to say something nice before you tell them the critical feedback.

Speaker 2: 37:51

All the structures we've built in leadership development around situational leadership as a governor. To put a blanket on top of all of the trauma, we don't attend to the trauma, but we've gotten very good at helping our clients build governance systems that makes them better leaders, and we pointed to this. Then came 2020. And this is why our profession has to grow up and say, ok, the governor ain't working anymore. We can't teach more information to people and add to their list of things. They have to check off to make sure they do, or they don't do or it's. That's it Right. It's not working and, as I said, 75 percent of CEOs are seeing this.

Speaker 1: 38:26

This isn't working anymore.

Speaker 2: 38:27

Leadership development programs ain't moving the cheese, they're just not. Let's be honest, they're not really effective today.

Speaker 3: 38:35

We've started to talk about this also.

Speaker 2: 38:38

Most leaders think they're acting out of free will, even when these governors are involved. But how much are we really a choice and how much of it is just old programming playing out or being upgraded? How much do we actually engage free will versus have our programming running the show? Thoughts on that.

Speaker 4: 38:57

I think I shared it before that I write a statistic that said 95% of our waking life is spent unconsciously. And I think it's an important statistic to share again because I think it's astounding, when you really stand back and think about it, how much we're operating from our conditioning. And I certainly find myself in that regard because I build habits into my life that free me up Seemingly. I think they free me up to be more conscious, so that I don't have to put so much energy into thinking about what I'm doing. I use the analogy of driving all the time and how.

Speaker 4: 39:30

When you first got your license, you were white knuckle gripping that steering wheel at 10 and 2, and you were observing everything going on around you. Nowadays, 30 years later, you've been driving that long. You're probably distracted, have the radio on, you might even be looking at your phone at the same time, which you shouldn't do while you're driving and you're not putting so much focused energy into what you're doing because it becomes second nature. And I think that that habituation of how we build our lives has enabled that, that we are kind of floating in, kind of a parallel for much of our life and not truly focused and present in what we're doing and, as a result of that, that creates all kinds of issues downstream that we can only imagine and we've walked those experiences and had them to the extent that. Did I stop at that, stop sign back there?

Speaker 2: 40:23

I had no idea, I think I did yeah, and habits are things that we do that we no longer question. And again just like beliefs, habits are extremely powerful, because I'm training my nervous system, my body, my mind to do something over and over again. If it's discipline like if I want to get a better, stronger body I have to go through some period of time of being uncomfortable doing the practice that's helping me do that, and then it becomes a habit and it's natural to me.

Speaker 1: 40:54

But in the same way, if we are reinforcing these beliefs over and over again, that aren't serving us it has the negative outcomes that we've talked about.

Speaker 2: 41:03

And this gets to this interesting topic about ego. What is ego? And you pointed to to a little earlier that you know having some level of ego is part of being in this world. We don't necessarily exit the ego and get rid of it. Even people in higher states of consciousness will operate out of some structure. Because if you don't have that structure, what can you do? It's hard to engage in the world. So what is ego? How does it get developed?

Speaker 5: 41:29

Well, you know, ego is just a defense system that's been created to protect the self. Technically, it kind of has been set up to further protect. You know, protect our identity and all that, but basically, on a survival level, teaches us how to take care of our needs so we can survive between the meals, right? So basically, take actions that will produce certain results keep us afloat, keep us away from danger and stuff like that.

Speaker 5: 41:58

Over time it blends into other things Because we again, we're talking about all the core belief systems that comprise, you know, and create the identity that actually later is reinforced in our adolescence. And on top of that, when we get exposed to a group dynamic, we'll have to develop the social construct on top of that. So our ego gets in the way more and more because it's like it doesn't understand the complexity of social settings.

Speaker 5: 42:33

So, that's why I gave an example of those executives that crash and burn because they react like those spoiled toddlers. Suddenly the facade is off and then there is this abused kid who didn't get enough attention when he was growing up. Everybody gets to see that. Do you think the board will still keep him in running their business? No, he'll be gone. So that's, why those executives. They coined the term death by exposure.

Speaker 2: 43:04

You don't have to do anything.

Speaker 5: 43:05

Put the guy in a stressful situation and you will see that scared kid. Now do you want to continue paying him like seven-digit number salary for that, or you'll chuck him out the window. Bring some other cold-blooded bastard to run the show. So that's why a lot of times when we're talking about the ego, yes, it's important, but to an extent. If we get attached to our ego too much, most likely we'll crash and burn in social settings, no matter how creative and smart we are. Nobody likes people with big egos, so everybody knows that.

Speaker 2: 43:43

Everybody knows that. It's so true. What you're pointing to is ego, is a mechanical structure that helps us survive and, as we've gotten into a more complex way of living as human beings we've lost touch or never really realized that the ego we begin to identify with. So we're identifying with our false self.

Speaker 1: 44:06

When you identify with your ego, and this is the way I am you're identifying with a mechanical part of yourself.

Speaker 2: 44:12

What's the difference between identifying with ego and identifying with life itself and living and being-ness? We know that we have to have some structure and it's kind of like this is my best suit. I'm putting my best suit on today because I want to look good and that's ego. Right, it's a suit, it's a set of clothes. It allows to engage and be perceived in a certain way and there's people that are very conscious that will work on that identity structure as a way knowing it's a means to an end. So people that are very aware can see I need to put myself out there in this way in order for this to happen, because if I believe this, it will help me manifest what I want to manifest, but I'm not attached to it. It's fun and I would look at the current president of the United States as somebody that does that pretty well. Some people would say he doesn't do it pretty well. What would you say about how's ego compared to being alive?

Speaker 4: 45:10

or being. For some reason, while you were talking, an image of a rose came up for me, so you recognize that a rose has wonderful, beautiful petals but it also has those thorns. And I think that the ego keeps us focused on the thorns, the protection oh, don't touch right there, because you might get pricked by that thorn. And so we're ego-based, we're constantly looking at the thorns and protecting ourselves from touching and getting our fingers pricked from those thorns.

Speaker 4: 45:39

Whereas living and being is focusing on the petals and the entirety of the rose plant itself and the beauty that it offers us. That's kind of how I see it, or at least that's what came up for me while you were talking, and hopefully that's an analogy that really brings that point home for our audience and listeners.

Speaker 2: 45:59

Well, that's a beautiful analogy because there's fragrance, there's beauty. There's how it changes the entire context. You know, I love roses. When you have a dozen roses in the room, it changes the whole room right it changes the whole ambience of the room.

Speaker 3: 46:15

But if you focus on the thorns, you know we're not personally focused on it, unless we're like taking them off so they don't bother us.

Speaker 2: 46:23

You know, it seems to me beingness is more about softening into the experience, being more open and expanded. And I go back to my definition of executive presence it's seeing everything and then choosing to use your attention being a choice in using your attention and how do you want to use it. Do you want to go with what's reacting or do you want to go to being effective? You say this a lot being leads to doing. Doing doesn to go to being effective. You say this a lot being leads to doing, doing doesn't lead to being. But a lot of times we get fixated on the external doingness and the checklists and demands that are being on us and again those demands have gone up and it makes it even more increasingly challenging to not go into those demands because we are hardening and getting more contracted in how we're engaging organizational life and our employee population and how we deal with other executives.

Speaker 2: 47:17

Right and more you get like that, the harder it is to move, the harder it is to be flexible, the harder it is to be innovative, right? Is that fair to say?

Speaker 4: 47:26

Yeah, I think that the difference, and comparative difference between management and leadership is what you're articulating as well, and I think we've been well-educated on how to manage, but not always well-educated on how to lead. So the management is that hard-driving action and strategy to get those results that we're looking for. The leadership is the how, in terms of how we go about doing and achieving those things at the end of the day.

Speaker 4: 47:51

And the how is equally important as the what, the outcome. And if we disregard the how, then we only get the pain of the what that we're trying to experience, and I love how you put it.

Speaker 4: 48:03

You know the softening and the opening, and that's really what you need to be, in terms of a leader and that essence of a leader that you're describing is that you're curious, you're open, you're very conscious of what's taking place right now and how that is being experienced by your team. The rigidity of identity that we've already talked about keeps us only very narrowly composed on the outcomes that we're trying to create, so we don't see that our executives are sweating and struggling over in the corner just trying to really accomplish what we're doing, and an attentive person that's open and really present is going to be aware of how people are perceiving what's happening around them, so that they can take care of those people and again address the being in order to ultimately get the doing. At the end of the day and we can't put that cart before the horse. The doing does not come before the being, not in any natural and productive way.

Speaker 2: 49:00

So we're getting into some really good meat here, because I want to go back to and totally he's talking about you work with those tough VP executives, right, you talk about it all the time and we're talking about like softening and being and all that stuff. But how is that practical?

Speaker 1: 49:16

for an executive to intermix that softening with their drive and their engagement with their organization.

Speaker 2: 49:23

Right? Is that woo-woo or is that practical? It's practical.

Speaker 5: 49:29

I'll just give you a good example, because you were talking about softening and leadership. So some of those BP executives who told me about their time when they spent at the Gordonstoun School for the Royal Blood, they shared that the Royal Blood they're being raised not much different from anybody else at that school.

Speaker 5: 49:50

They get like kicked around and sometimes other kids will get up and kind of give the prince a bit of like a hard time at night. So this is what the British identified from centuries back that a healthy dosage of humidity injected at a tender age will be quite helpful. Humility injected at a tender age will be quite helpful Because, like you mentioned, those hard-nosed executives, they do have that underlying humility which could be switched on and switched off at will, at the right situation at the right time, which is the safety valve not many executives have.

Speaker 5: 50:29

But they were brought up from the early age to know, hey, I need to be humble, pedal back, relax, let it go, let it blow over, and then go back in the game and win. So you see? So this is where we're talking about, the centuries-old upbringing system that was meant to tweak even the royal blood, regardless of the title. So, apparently, when we're talking about executives who didn't have the luxury of going to similar schools when they were young and have never developed that, they would either learn it the hard way, through ups and downs, or they will early on recognize, hey, I need to be doing something about that. Well, I'll just give you a different example. Sometimes there could be a way to get carried away with trying to instill a level of humility, understanding and all that. So there was like a very rich Russian oligarch who decided to embrace spirituality to the point of like absurd. All of his top managers would be fasting, meditating, doing yoga, eating only healthy food and all that.

Speaker 5: 51:52

So the guy started off having $9 billion, but then over time his executives didn't really appreciate that.

Speaker 1: 52:00

Hey, when you have business to run and you want to meditate.

Speaker 5: 52:03

Now, are you sure it's 11 am. So the guy gradually went down from being worth $9 billion down to $400 million and I don't think he ever recovered from that point on. So that's a bit of an overkill. You see what I'm saying. The injection of kind of spirituality or meditative practice introduced ostensibly to help those executives did not help them survive in the highly competitive environment.

Speaker 2: 52:35

It's a matter of degree right, Because Howard Gardner of the Motley Fuel interviewed him some time ago and he said that he uses meditation as a way to prepare If a challenge arises in the business.

Speaker 1: 52:49

he will spend 30 minutes before calling his team in and meditating and it's contextual, so he is most present, because we're facing this challenge.

Speaker 2: 52:58

I want to be in a place where we can attend to the challenge. He's not demanding other people do it, he does it himself. If you look at Motley Fool, their investment company, he's done very well over the years and so, again, there's a degree of this and integration. And, as you say, if you're starting to like, I'm now demanding you do the practices that I do Anything else David it's all about a balance, if anything

Speaker 4: 53:20

gets too weighted on one side or the other, it throws us off, and I often say in my trainings that if you have all leadership, then that's great. You're going to have a lot of very inspired people, but you're probably not going to get a lot done without the balance of management at the end of the day. So there has to be that blending and juxtaposition between the two that balances each other in an effective way and different situations. As you talk about situational leadership, different situations are going to require a greater heaviness in management versus leadership.

Speaker 4: 53:52

In some situations it requires a little more leadership and less of the management function Makes good sense.

Speaker 2: 53:58

So we've talked a lot about how beliefs are powerful. They're tricky to change and how we start to consider making lasting, real shifts without losing ourselves, as we've just spoken about. I want to transition to talk a little bit about how the resilient leader method interacts with our beliefs, and I know, Antola, you and I have had a lot of conversations about this that different from hypnosis or NLP.

Speaker 2: 54:29

This process is very clean. It doesn't get into a person's business, right? It doesn't ask them to change any beliefs, values, anything about themselves. There's no demand of that. However, at the beginning of the process we insist on a coaching conversation and a set of preparation for that process that has them choose what they want to let go of and what they want to embrace more of in their lives. And when they come into the process, they're in charge of what changes, not the hypnotist or the NLP practitioner, right? They're in charge of what they change. So I'd like you to talk a little bit about how the resilient leader method interacts with police.

Speaker 2: 55:20

I'm giving you a little bit of breadcrumbs to go off of, but just talk a little bit about how that resetting the nervous system helps people let go of those things they want to let go of and be more open now to receive what they want to receive.

Speaker 5: 55:33

Well, we talked about that before. That our core belief systems, or one system or several systems. They can actually rise to the fore to be addressed only after we go into a certain state. We can call it like an altered state, or technically it's just a theta bandwidth state which allows for a lot of magic to happen, as opposed to other brain waves.

Speaker 5: 56:01

So, therefore as a result the only way it can be made happen is only if it's induced through sound entrainment, as usually people using binaural beats or all sorts of programs, like at Monroe Institute, when they go through and they go into that state and suddenly certain things become visible or they can perceive them on a certain physical level. Now, what I like about our format is that there's no need to go into any interaction. But if people identify what they really want to get rid of, they do it on their own. They identify, they flag things they want to remove. Why? Because I cannot be doing that for them.

Speaker 5: 56:46

It's not my job, I'm not involved.

Speaker 1: 56:49

It's their business.

Speaker 5: 56:51

The only reason when it happens. It could be done instantaneously. They just have to decide what they need to get rid of. This could involve bits and pieces of their beliefs that they for some reason decide to get rid of.

Speaker 5: 57:05

But I don't judge them by saying, well, you could go around this or you go deeper. It's their personal choice. But it's really important that everybody makes that choice on their own. But this is not actually needed In most cases. That transformation that is going on inside a person will push out outdated beliefs and a person would feel the need to upgrade their belief systems based on the fact that, well, those beliefs don't serve me anymore. I'm shedding those beliefs like the snakeskin. It needs to go. Instead, I will incorporate something that's going to serve me in my new, vibrant self.

Speaker 3: 57:52

So that's the idea.

Speaker 5: 57:54

So the trace of character, personality, traits, belief systems, values none of that is addressed. It's just a person that feels like I feel like something could be let go of because I'm in a certain state of a vibrancy that may allow for that to happen without me having to make any conscious effort. So that's why this process is impersonal, noncommittal, and a person gets to decide a lot and a person gets to decide how this person may proceed with upgrading or making those changes.

Speaker 2: 58:34

I appreciate you being very clear that you don't have anything to do with what you're asking them to change, and that's the beauty of the process.

Speaker 3: 58:42

And I will share a story in a second of another client that's had success with this.

Speaker 2: 58:47

But I see some people's entire sense of identity shift.

Speaker 3: 58:53

I see people that said this used to bother me.

Speaker 2: 58:57

And why did it bother them?

Speaker 3: 58:58

Because they had a belief about it. All of a sudden, it doesn't bother them anymore.

Speaker 2: 59:01

I've seen grief be healed. We had a woman when one of her twins were born. One of the twins were lost. That's devastating to a mother. She couldn't shake it After the reset. It's not that she didn't appreciate the loss of that and what that meant, but it didn't debilitate her anymore. In this process, when we work with people, and it's important to emphasize this you're the architect of the change.

Speaker 3: 59:24

The client is the architect of the change.

Speaker 2: 59:26

That's the way it ought to be that the client is the architect of the change. That's the way it ought to be. That's the beauty of it. There's no ego trying to get you to be a certain way. Yet we're going to ask you to say okay, be honest with yourself when you were a kid, what was it like and how would you have liked it to have been? We go back to the beginning, where these beliefs are formed. And if I was in a situation where, even if with the best intentions, I was expected to bring home an A, and if I didn't, I got the what for that suddenly created this thing.

Speaker 2: 59:55

I'm okay when I achieve, when that softens. Paradoxically, you're set up to be a bigger achiever, but your shift and your belief about that is I've softened. That it's not life is more than about achieving. Again. I mean there is massive shift in beliefs and I know I appreciate what you're saying about I don't direct that but the way we have people set up for this now is to look at some of that and say what do you want to let go of?

Speaker 2: 1:00:22

What you talk about, antoli, is that when we're in that theta state, we open the door to our subconscious in a way that in any other state maybe gamma we do too, I don't know, but certainly in theta state. We're opening that door to relate directly to our subconscious, where all these beliefs are stored. We don't ever forget anything. As a human being, we never forget anything. It's all stored in our filing system. It goes unconscious but it's still stored there.

Speaker 2: 1:00:51

So I'd like you to just talk a minute about the interaction between as they get into that relaxed state and are trained with your state of theta that you're always in and they come with these intentions. How does that relate to that storehouse of files in them?

Speaker 3: 1:01:05

when the nervous system begins to get reset back to original factory settings.

Speaker 5: 1:01:10

Well, technically there's this neuroplasticity behind this. Normally it takes a lifetime to grow right our nervous system and the way we operate. But the neuroplasticity that comes on the heels of the sound entrainment, which basically is just my voice, is a very particular. It's called functional synaptic plasticity.

Speaker 5: 1:01:34

I'll say there's a specific term, compensatory masquerade, which is top of the neuroplasticity that kicks in when we experience a trauma and that kind of helps us stay functional. Now, it doesn't mean that, like people listen to my voice and their brain goes like crazy trying to rewire and hide all the files that you, david, you know you were talking about.

Speaker 1: 1:02:00

It's like, okay, okay, scrap defying system. I don't have any files.

Speaker 5: 1:02:04

I've got nothing to refer to so well, but that's actually in a way it is happening Because the way during that rewiring process and that neuroplasticity the functional neuroplasticity people still retain the memories of all the things they've ever had. But the level of detachment that they develop makes them go about life like as if they made some serious spiritual development to rise above the trauma and negative experiences they've had in life. So they become detached from all of that. So it's almost like you're filing a system but you don't care anymore. The files are there, you can go and examine, you read, but it's like reading someone else's life story.

Speaker 1: 1:02:52

Okay, it's about me, but I don't care about that anymore it doesn't get to me.

Speaker 5: 1:02:57

Now it's not stealing your identity, so you still have control over your physical files. Yeah, okay, so the dog did not eat it, right? It's still sitting there. But the idea is like your emotional attachment to any of that stuff has profoundly changed. That's what is very liberating.

Speaker 2: 1:03:18

We used a metaphor where you're talking about the core self, right, but it's like defragging a hard drive when it's repartitioned, the old junk files are moved into a section of the hard drive that is kind of still there, but they're out of the way of the operating of the prime files that you want to access and use. So all of a sudden the computer works faster and is able to sort things faster, while those files may still be there under the surface of the hard drive, and if you have to find them you can go to an expert and say listen, I lost these files.

Speaker 3: 1:03:54

Can you find on my hard drive where those files are and pull them back up.

Speaker 2: 1:03:57

So they're not gone, but they're out of the way.

Speaker 3: 1:04:00

So I think that's a good metaphor to use here.

Speaker 2: 1:04:03

And what we're attending to if we're going to go back tour.

Speaker 1: 1:04:07

Family Systems and Robert.

Speaker 2: 1:04:09

Schultz's work there he talks about, we have this core self, with all these good qualities that are naturally there and available to us. I think what he says is when we separate into parts, we lose contact with that core part of ourselves and those resources. And it's really a matter of realigning those parts to be more consistent and in relationship with that core self where they get fed and energized and so forth.

Speaker 2: 1:04:37

That's what happens as we begin to create that integration process in our work, and those qualities of clarity and focus and energy and confidence, which are naturally there and available to all of us, just come to the surface and become more accessible to us. I want to share another story, to bring all this neuroplasticity and all this stuff into practical focus and talk about a guy by the name of Dave who I worked with, who was a high-performing AVP of marketing at a growing tech company, and Dave was one of those people that prided himself in being a high achiever and that identity actually had fueled him in his career and his success, but as he rose in executive roles, as we talked about, it started limiting him and in meetings, with senior

Speaker 2: 1:05:19

leaders. He was very polished and almost too perfect. Right, he believed he had to say the right things, keep his real concerns to himself, because, after all, if he brought those up at the wrong time, what that might do. But in reality that approach actually started dulling his presence and muting his natural influence and was limiting his promotion. But in coaching, dave began to see this and saw the need to soften this high achiever image. And it was getting in his way and he was draining his thinking, he was disconnecting him from his authentic self and his authentic leadership.

Speaker 2: 1:05:54

And so that's when I introduced the resilient leader method to him and, as typical after the reset, there was an immediate transformation. Right after he completed the two sessions, dave immediately reconnected to his energy, his presence, his clarity and, naturally and in a way he never had, he stopped operating from a place of I have to and began leading from a grounded real place. He wasn't managing perceptions anymore, he was simply showing up as himself more relaxed, more trusting and more effective. They became more present in meetings. He was able to be bolder in sharing inconsistencies. He saw and he didn't stop himself from doing that we have to address these inconsistencies, because they're getting in the way of our greater success.

Speaker 2: 1:06:41

So he started trusting him more and of course, other people started noticing these things and senior leaders, who had once sensed his hesitancy, began to engage him more strategically, especially around his data and analysis work showing how marketing could more effectively drive sales, and they acknowledged him for leading initiatives that boosted sales by 20%, for his work cleaning up the pipeline, and for his leadership to help transform the current company website, and his boss noted how much more confident and engaged David was becoming in meetings, especially with senior leaders.

Speaker 2: 1:07:12

He was no longer shrinking under feedback, but leaning in, more creative, more tuning and more aligned. And he talked about the coaching post reset. He said before. I had a hard time connecting to how I felt when you asked me. Now I'm in tune with those emotions and sensations and we're able to go deeper into the coaching sessions. Today he still identifies as a high achiever, but it's a different, upgraded version. It's not about proving, it's about creating. It's about leading and adding value, contributing from a centered place.

Speaker 2: 1:07:43

And, as he said, I'm freeing. Feel free to let go of the past and give myself permission to move forward. I'm getting excited about what I want to create. This is more than worth the investment. It was a gift to myself, he said. So a lot of this is a blend, as you see, between this personal experience. So when Dave goes home now he has two kids that are very young ages and they can be very energetic when they see dad walk through the door and he now can greet, that experience and welcome and and be in the moment with his kids in a way could never be before, not because he didn't want to, but because he was kind of in his achiever head and he had a hard time transitioning.

Speaker 3: 1:08:21

Well, those transitions are not happening anymore and he's more just emotionally present and he's also an individual that didn't feel a lot of sensations in his body and now is, and he's realizing that's information, like if I'm pushing too hard, I start feeling it in my body and I know it's time to take a break.

Speaker 2: 1:08:40

And you guys know high driving achievers, they see their body as an obstacle to their achievement. And Dave stopped that.

Speaker 1: 1:08:45

He just said now I take a break. I know it's time for self-care.

Speaker 2: 1:08:49

Because now when I go back, I'm triple in productivity after taking a rest for 15 minutes or a half hour. Right, he recognizes that, but he reads it in himself. So as we close out, gentlemen, any final thoughts that you wanted to share about today's show, we covered a lot of ground. What are beliefs? Why are they so sticky? What's at the core of creating them? What can we do to begin to choose beliefs, since they are lies, in a sense, that are empowering and effective?

Speaker 4: 1:09:22

Anything you want to say around any of that to close out the show today, I think, a central theme that we really hit home for our audience today is who am I and why am I the way I am? And if you're not feeling like you're in alignment with who you truly are, or you feel like that what you've defined yourself to be is, ultimately, your greatest limitation, this is an opportunity to really explore the idea of the resilient leadership method, because it creates when we say well, wait a second, I'm not sure who I am. If I want to be something other than I am, how do I get there? That's ultimately the question is how do I go from here to where I would like to be? And the resilient leadership method delivers that, based on the wonderful examples and stories that you've been telling each week.

Speaker 4: 1:10:08

I think it's so exciting to listen to, and, for the audience who hasn't heard our prior episodes, I invite you to go back and listen to the stories that David closes out each session with, because they are powerful. We talked a lot about a lot of great stuff, but, as a result of oriented leaders that I know you are, you probably want to get to the magic sauce as quickly as possible. So check out the Ed and B's podcast, because they really offer that practical experience of everything that we talk about that creates that shift and totally true gift of being able to enable that in others and David's great capabilities and deepening that experience through the coaching process, and I'm just happy to be along for the ride.

Speaker 2: 1:10:49

So thanks guys Glad to be here, and thanks for your comments, ryan, appreciate it.

Speaker 5: 1:10:53

Well, I think the idea is like we covered the ego, the identity, the belief systems shared some personal experiences and examples. I think that this is a very good episode today, because people usually tend to look at this stuff with a bit of like a jaded eye.

Speaker 5: 1:11:12

Oh yeah, I've heard it someplace, I don't know. There's too much to take on. You can't really simplify this. On top of that, I cannot really trust the process because there's got to be always some sort of a kinks in the way, and sometimes I don't even know how. If I can trust, the process and all that.

Speaker 5: 1:11:30

So if we try to deduce from all of that, this is a great idea. The three of us are talking from different angles, but the outcome is pretty simple. The process itself is very clean and transparent and I don't bring anything to the show other than just creating the coherence through the sound entrainment. But it's ultimately the wisdom that you guys bring to the show which is more important, because you frame it all the right way. There's no way one person will be able to do that, but once you bring your wisdom to the table, it's all combined. But once you bring your wisdom to the table, it's all combined. We get the best angle for each and every episode, and I'm very happy that we have this opportunity to do that together.

Speaker 2: 1:12:17

I'm really grateful for you, gentlemen joining me and I also want to emphasize that. You know we're up against a little bit of a wall when we talk about the Brazilian leader method, because you know there's been so much talked about about this stuff and it is quite simple, that's what I love about the process, it's simple, it works, it's effective and it's fast.

Speaker 2: 1:12:41

We're kind of curing viruses and bacterias in the human being in a certain way. If you think about when penicillin was introduced, it was hard to believe that something could actually stop all that illness. But essentially what we're doing?

Speaker 1: 1:12:50

is we're introducing something of that?

Speaker 2: 1:12:52

level of breakthrough of greater actually, because it's impacting humanity at a level that if everybody did this, if it was possible, the whole world would be different completely different. We'd be living in a golden age, for sure, you know if you're willing to explore this, to reach out and talk to us. Let's explore and see if this is something that could really help you take your leadership in your life to a whole new level so thank you, gentlemen.

Speaker 2: 1:13:18

Today we really peeled back the layers of expose what beliefs are, beautiful lies we mistake for truths, and how they quietly shape our identity, leadership and life Itself. We showed how the inner conflict between free will and ego programming can silently cap our potential.

Speaker 2: 1:13:38

And, just as we talked about just explored how resilient leader method can dissolve programming and open doors to conscious, sovereign leadership, where you're in charge of what you're doing and you direct your efforts to meet your aspirations. So I really appreciate you all joining us today. Remember, you are not your inherited beliefs, you are the architect of your future. This is David Kragos Leadership Alchemist signing off.

Speaker 1: 1:14:07

Have a great rest of your day and thank you again gentlemen, see you next week.