Speaker 1: 0:11

Welcome to Unfazed Under Fire, a podcast designed to elevate your leadership and amplify your impact. Each episode offers valuable insights to help you transform your vision into reality, cultivate high-performing cultures that attract top talents, and navigate the complexities of today's uncertain, chaotic world with confidence and clarity. Now tuning into your needs, here's your host and moderator, seasoned executive coach and leadership alchemist, david Craig Utz.

Speaker 2: 0:44

What if the very beliefs you're most loyal to, the ones you think are protecting your success, are the ones silently sabotaging your potential? Welcome back to Unfazed Under Fire, a podcast dedicated to helping leaders cultivate clarity, consciousness and courage under pressure. I'm David Craig Utz and I want to begin by thanking all of you for joining us, whether you're a regular listener or just tuning in. We're really honored to have you here today. Now, this podcast, again, is all about helping you lead from the inside out, especially when times are chaotic, disruptive and deeply demanding. And we know that leaders today aren't just tasked with performance. They're tasked with navigating constant change and disruption, while being expected to remain grounded, effective and authentic.

Speaker 2: 1:28

So today we're wrapping up a three-part series on the power of belief. In episode one, we explored how beliefs get formed, especially early in life, and how they unconsciously drive your leadership and their approach to life. In episode two, we dove into the concept of identity, who we are, how we become attached to certain belief structures and how they can block our growth, and even when we want to change them. Now, on this final episode, we're going to be bringing it all together. We're going to dig into what it really means to achieve self-mastery, why shifting beliefs is essential to doing so, and we're going to talk about how the resilient leadership method offers a powerful and efficient pathway to doing just that. Again, I'm joined by my two great co-hosts the brilliant Anatoly Yakorev, founder of World Without Corruption and the co-creator of the resilient leader method, and Ryan McShane, a leadership development consultant at Ken Chapman Associates.

Speaker 2: 2:23

So let's jump in, gentlemen. So the adage is before we can lead others, we have to learn how to lead ourself, and that's not just some idea, it's the bedrock of profound leadership impact. So let's start by talking about where transformation begins self-mastery. So, first of all, before we talk about self-mastery itself, let's talk about why self-mastery is the foundation that ensures that we lead others well. And many times that word self-mastery is, you know, also the same word self-leadership. So self-leadership, self-mastery are essentially the same thing. So why is self-mastery the fundamental foundation of leading others well?

Speaker 3: 3:01

It's a matter of walking the talk. That's something that people will pick up and recognize very quickly. If what you say and what you do are vastly different from one another, you know connotes hypocrisy, and I think the employees will recognize that very quickly. And I often say you can't pour from an empty cup. You can't expect to hold others accountable to standards that you yourself cannot meet, and that exemplifies that hypocrisy that really turns people off.

Speaker 3: 3:29

And then there's a real trust factor associated with that and, as we know in our prior discussions, trust is essential to relationship development and that's what it's about as a leader is you have to have relationship with your employees, your followers. So I think that's an important thing to recognize. You want to make sure that you're holding yourself accountable to the same standards that you would hold others to. So when you walk that talk, there is automatically that trust and connection and identification and modeling that is so important as leaders that we want to exhibit for others to be able to follow in those same footsteps. So it has to start with yourself. We cannot be outwardly focused without first being inwardly focused and making sure that we are in alignment and cohere with those standards that we project on others.

Speaker 2: 4:18

So what you're saying is if you haven't been there and done that and you're telling people how to do things, that doesn't fly, and if we're not modeling it, it is. If we haven't been there and done that and you're telling people how to do things, that doesn't fly.

Speaker 3: 4:25

And if we're not modeling it, it's a credibility factor isn't it?

Speaker 2: 4:27

Yeah, right, it is If we haven't experienced development in ourselves and have brought forth a greater expression of ourselves. People see through that, you know, and they don't want to follow you. Any other thoughts on that? Would you say Anatoly on that? Would you say Anatoly on that? Would you share a few words?

Speaker 4: 4:43

Yeah, I find it really uplifting what Ryan was saying about walking the talk, because this is a mantra straight from my former industry of business ethics and compliance. You know, walking the talk, how to keep the C-suite and the top management accountable and how they are perceived by, you know, employees and workforce, and whether they can actually walk the talk. Well, because over the recent years, there was a heavy dosage of ideology that went into my industry and created a level of perception that, hey, there's a lot of BS going on, but we have to believe this. Right, we'll pretend, we'll pretend and we'll just have to accept it, because that's the way things are. This is really where people start getting disengaged from their leaders, from their managers, from their executives, because they realized all that game with winking. It's like, hey, you know, like we just say for the sake of saying it, people, you know, thought for a certain period of time people were buying into this. It's like, oh, actually I'm one of the very select few that I get along with the managers. We know that we make believe, pretend and play this game, but we're all just a bunch of psychophants. Right, this is the way to make a career, so? But people now, after the recent years, they just realized it's not working anymore.

Speaker 4: 6:04

Give us something, like, ryan, you've been always saying all along. Give us something we can trust. Now back it up with your actions. Oh, you can't do both. Or how are you supposed to work with you if you can't do both? We are supposed to kiss up to you and trust your title. So this is the problem that the shift that is happening from people's focus, from the personalities of our leaders, to be shifted onto their titles. But unfortunately it doesn't work this way. People are not married to their titles. You cannot take it to the bank, so that's what we're having right now.

Speaker 2: 6:40

Yeah, I think that's why I called my leadership model the authentic, courageous leader. Right, because self-mastery begets authenticity. We can go to authenticity training and learn how to pretend that we're authentic. Or a lot of clients say well, authenticity is I have to be vulnerable. That scares me and I'm going to try maybe to be a little bit vulnerable. And so we kind of put the cart before the horse. With a lot of the way that we talk about authenticity today and if you're pretending people see that again, 97% of communication is nonverbal. You might say all the right words, but if you're not fully grounded in yourself, coming from an authentic place which has been developed through excavation and looking at some of the beliefs that we think about ourselves and our identity and how we're bringing ourselves forward, it's hard to be authentic. You can't fake authenticity. So what is self-mastery At the end of the day? What are you mastering when you're mastering yourself?

Speaker 3: 7:37

I think, david, it comes down to having conscious attention, intention, goal setting and accountability. And when you have those in place then you are aligned to achieve those higher, lofty visions that we talk about. Without those great intentions, without having some firm, smart goals in place and then the accountability factors to build that out, then we don't grow. And so self-mastery is continuously aligning towards that ideal and having the practical steps in place to ensure that you're slowly but surely achieving those goals over a period of time. And that's a growth factor that a lot of people are going to recognize. Are your actions matching your intentions? And again, that goes back to what we had said before is making sure that there's coherence between those things. That creates a trust factor. So self-mastery has to have those elements of that goal setting and that accountability that align with your highest vision of yourself.

Speaker 2: 8:35

And it's so true. You have to meet your intention with something within. There has to be consistent beliefs, behaviors, etc. Vision is the biggest why that leaders are told to lean into and, at the same time, if we're not learning how we're using our attention whether our attention has us or we have it how we're directing our energy, what's getting in the way of us being real, that's also essential. To the other side of the coin, right, we can have a grand vision, and a lot of times, one of the things that I tell people about vision is it's really fun to create one. That's the fun part Create the vision.

Speaker 2: 9:11

I'm going to change the way that we operate around here. I'm going to change the way that we engage our customers and so that we have a great customer experience, we're going to make sure that when people come to work every day, they walk out, skipping out the door, whatever it is right. And yet, once it's created, the hard work starts, because you have to examine what we're doing and how we're doing it. That's inconsistent with that and that's where the change comes in and the self-change and self-mastery is really. That's a metaphor for that.

Speaker 2: 9:40

I know we can all walk around and know we have moments when we get into what's called flow, yes, and when that happens, it's magical, because when you're in flow, everything seems to be operating for you, not against you. Even the things that are against you, they don't bother you. And that points to something else is self-mastery? Is not adding more information right? It's about tapping into this inner treasure house that's already there the ability to tap into greater abilities and gifts, to have an energy resource available to us that is unbridled in its nature at times and gives us what we need. That's why passion is talked about as a means to engage your vision, bring forward passion and energy towards that. The ability to, as I said, direct your attention and your focus, that you're in charge of it. So any thoughts on, rather than something that we're learning or adding to.

Speaker 3: 10:40

I'm delighted to hear you bring up the term flow and energy and creation, because I think that we all too often dismiss those kind of terms as woo-woo.

Speaker 3: 10:49

But really that's the essence of who we are. We are born creators. And think about those times where you've created something, you have that higher level of energy that is deeper than just those caffeine boosts or things of that nature that we experience from a surface standpoint. And you know, I think back over my career and it's those things where I've created new programs and new policies and new trainings and things of that nature where I felt like I was giving the best of myself and that was always within me. But I look deeper to create those kinds of things and to be able to build those out and share them with the world around me. I think that is delivering of the highest self, and so I think we're meant to be those creators and not reactors. And we talked about that reactive model in the past. But it occurred to me the other night do great leaders bring out the best in us, not the beast in us? And I think that there's something to be said about that Because in

Speaker 3: 11:50

that beast mode. We're highly reactive to the world around us from a self-protection standpoint, but in our best mode we're ultimately creating, and we're creating what's in our best and highest interest, as well as the collective best and highest interest, as well as the collective best and highest interest. You know how does this impact my stakeholders? Not just is it good for Ryan, but is it good for everybody in the ecosystem of the organization. And when we have that true alignment, we know that we're doing something well. And those are the kind of legacy impacts that leaders can walk away from their career knowing that they have created significant evolution of that organization and change.

Speaker 2: 12:29

We talk about leadership versus management. Leaders' fundamental identity is to be a creator, not just a sustainer. Right, and what are we creating? We're creating greater you know service to our customers. We're creating an environment in which people can thrive, supporting our direct reports, if we are operating at a high level of leadership to become the best versions of themselves. Now, obviously, we've got a few other things on our plate that are confronting us and we're reacting to that disables us, in a certain way, from doing that, and that's the reality of being in the position, especially today. But ultimately, that's what that's about, and before we jump into that which we will, because we have to get back, quote unquote reality with what leaders are dealing with today, I want to ask you, gentlemen, what are we paying attention to in ourselves to develop self-mastery? Paying attention to in ourselves to develop self-mastery? What are the internal things that are there that we will turn to to excavate and bring forward that core self, so that we're operating less out of ego and, more naturally, out of authenticity?

Speaker 3: 13:37

I think we have to tune into our bodies. Our bodies are communicating with us at all times and where we feel discomfort, that's a sign, a signpost to say let's explore why that is what's happening here. Nervousness, anxiousness, defensiveness, those are the kinds of things that continue to trigger to us something is off, something is wrong. And if we continue to pay attention to those things consciously pay attention to those things and explore why might that be? I recognize this feeling. I don't like this feeling. So what's happening within me? Why am I having these feelings? And that oftentimes points back to those beliefs that we've talked about in the last couple episodes and continue to talk about today. Do I have a self-limiting belief? If you have a lofty vision and you have doubting beliefs, you're obviously unaligned, and that's what's going to produce those kind of feelings that I talk about.

Speaker 2: 14:32

I'm sure Anatoly could put a finer point on that, but that's how I view it ultimately to be in touch with our body, where everything pretty much everything's happening in our experience, and most people many executives are tuned out from the neck down on that. We also have to be able to examine beliefs and see what's consistent or inconsistent with what we're trying to create. We have to learn how we're using our attention to be more effective, how to take charge of our focus, how to take charge of our energy and self-care to enable us to do that. But there's something that we're attending to in us that is not our mind. It is that which is observing everything.

Speaker 2: 15:16

We don't know if we're processing something correctly or not unless we're able to observe what we're thinking. Our thinking isn't the primary modality in which we thrive through. It is certainly a power tool we have, but there is this aspect of ourselves that knows whether we're doing something effectively or not effectively, whether that conversation with my CEO went well or didn't go well. It's that ability to reflect and step back that would be interesting to talk about briefly here is what is that observer in us and what is the most essential way by through which we could develop that?

Speaker 4: 15:50

Well, it's just really interesting that we touched on the emotional side of it and the energy. Well, let's dwell on that real quick. So imagine that we are working with other people. They bring all sorts of energies to us and they create a so-called emotional contagion which is very contagious to begin with. So therefore, if they bring their destructive energies and we are not in peace with ourselves, that brings out the worst in us because we get swept up with that and we kind of like crash and burn and experience all sorts of things. So back to your point, ryan. So it's really important to pay attention to self-regulation, emotional regulation, what is happening inside, how we are grounded. If we have enough inner peace, then we'll be able to do and work with other people to withstand the kind of emotional pressures that they bring to us.

Speaker 4: 16:44

And the second thing that you guys already, especially David, you mentioned, it's the level of consistency that we have. Very few people are consistent about their own behavior, how they show up at work, because they're always like all over the place, lots of things are happening. It's very easy just to get disentangled or detached from your base of operations inside of you. So therefore, that's a very important element. So what energies people bring, what energies we have, how we deal with both. That creates a level of pressures that very few people can manage, because that's a lot. That means you have done your homework, you show up and then you're able to work and plug in Down your homework. You show up and then you're able to work and plug in. So that's where a lot of leaders experience the level of pressures that they're not ready for. No-transcript.

Speaker 2: 17:51

Yeah, and in order for us to address that, there has to be awareness right.

Speaker 2: 17:53

This is where it gets practical. Self-awareness is not about making sure your internal governor is doing all the right things Make sure that I'm walking in this situation, make sure I don't step on a landmine but literally, self-awareness is being aware of this self that we're mastering, is turning our attention towards ourselves. So, in the aspect of energy management, as you were just talking about, and bringing positive energy forward, of making sure that we are present in the moment, how does turning our attention back to this self help us do that? Because it is not, as we said, learning more, not about adding more. It's not about going and learning, taking the latest training on servant leadership, even though that could be a positive experience. It's about taking that and exploring ourselves. I just want to bring this idea of more practicality to what self-awareness actually gives us, because we're always told self-awareness is one of the core modalities we need to engage to develop our leadership. So what does that self-awareness do for us and how does it develop and bring forward these greater capabilities that are already inherent in us?

Speaker 3: 18:56

As you mentioned before, it's the observation of the mind, it's observation of the thinking. That's what I contemplate when we talk about this topic. And we recognize that all the thoughts I think are not pure genius I can tell you that and sometimes they're just. They're based on old patterns and old beliefs and condition thinking and even traumas that we've experienced as well. So if we can observe how they're coming up for us and the kind of scripts that are popping up to mind unconsciously, we make them conscious by observing them. And once we've done that, that now we have an opportunity to reformulate how we are operating, based on what our intentions are, not what our unconscious patterns are. And that's the real magic sauce, I think, is being able to hold space for that observation.

Speaker 3: 19:47

And I think as a society, we do not spend enough time in reflection, and this is something I bring up oftentimes in my training courses and leadership development courses. Is that? How many of you, I ask the audience, how many of you build reflection into your daily schedule? And typically there are zero people who will raise their hand in response to that question. And I think that that's a real detriment to us because we're constantly doing. We're an action-based society. We have Nike to remind us. Just do it.

Speaker 3: 20:15

And from that standpoint, many still view the inner work that we talk about here as woo-woo or there must be something wrong with me if I have to do inner work. No, it's the refinement, the continuous growth and that self-mastery that we're talking about. None of us have been struck perfect, okay, and we all have these external impacts that have created internal discordance within us, and we have to recognize that. That's the human factor and we have to recognize that and continue to monitor it and observe. Is that going to bring out the better in me? Is that something that's going to limit me? Is it going to get me closer to my goals or further away from my goals? And by observing, by reflecting, by continuing to attend to those kinds of things, that's when we create the conditions for change internally. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:09

Well, I think it's well said. And what you're saying is, when we're not reflecting, we decrease the space through which we can make decisions, we contract, we go into a narrow focus. By being more aware, we expand, until you had the metaphor of the kite and the kite string, right that as the string goes up, we have more perspective. I use the hot air balloon as we go up in the sky, we see more, and the more that we can see, our mind doesn't have to keep up with it all. There's something else that's integrating and processing that, when we trust it, that could bring information to us that's more intuitive, instinctual, and that's a value of that.

Speaker 2: 21:53

And yes, the self-awareness, as you said, ryan, helps us understand at a level of which we know.

Speaker 2: 21:59

Pre-action is thought right, and so that helps us understand how we're thinking about things and how we can shift our mindset in the moment or when my significant other does something and I want to scream, knowing that's not a good idea for the sake of the relationship, which is what I care about most. There's also the body, which you mentioned is being aware allows you to be more present with that data that's coming to you from your physical body and your feelings that are happening. There is no bad feeling. I know some people don't believe that, but there's pieces of information that are coming to you. If I'm angry or feel a sense of judgment, or whatever it is, there's information in that that, if we take time to reflect on, can help us be more effective in a situation. And then going back to your point, anatoly, around energy, being able to observe and then be able to direct our energy or open more energy up to us is another aspect that that greater self-awareness gives us, if you will.

Speaker 2: 23:00

So, we're in this show about beliefs, so how is self-examination of beliefs and we've talked a little bit about that in the last two episodes, but just to bring it home to this power of belief episode how does this self-examination of beliefs help us develop self-mastery?

Speaker 4: 23:17

Well, I think, to go back to beliefs, we just have to. Let me just dwell real quick on what you, ryan, said about self-reflection. Nobody engages in self-reflection because it doesn't provide immediate value. So people think like, hey, I'll be like action-oriented, focused on what's in store for me out there. Who cares?

Speaker 4: 23:37

Normally, self-reflection happens in the moment of vulnerability, when we get humbled, we get fired, we get decimated by someone. So we fall back and we begin reflecting on this how did this get to this right? How did I end up being there? That would be a very tiny window of opportunity to have that self-reflection, which probably will be filled more with guilt and humility, other than just self-reflecting. But this is a step in the right direction.

Speaker 4: 24:06

Unfortunately, self-reflection happens for the most part with executives. Once they retire, they have all the time in the world to self-reflect, do anything, and that's how they start thinking about it. I still have my energy, I have my wisdom. Let me look back at all the actions I had before. Do I still have enough energy to put my wisdom a couple of extra miles and stuff like that. So a very tiny percentage of those people who do some self-work watching like podcasts, like ours would be addressing this right now and thinking like, okay, I still have maybe a decade of some healthy career moves. Maybe I need to start investing and reflecting. And that's going to take me back to my belief systems, which are still stuck at the frozen stage.

Speaker 4: 24:53

When I was five. How come I get here being the CEO of this company? But I'm still deep inside of me. I'm that toddler who had ups and downs and had, you know, sugar rush and all sorts of like stuff that you know he experienced. Is it still serving me? Is it time to have a bit of an update? Because all those protective layers I created over time they're not serving me well because they're built on lies, deceit and manipulation. It's a very tough one to have. Normally happens to executives when they're in some sort of a retreat, maybe like having some drinks with their buddies and having some insights, and suddenly it begins to sink in. I need to do something. I need to do something about myself, because this engine that I have inside of me is not going to give me and let me crank out extra 10,000 miles. I need to start doing this right now.

Speaker 4: 25:49

And this is where beliefs some of those lucky ones they start looking under the hood. Okay, my belief systems. Look at this. It just looks to me like some trash. What do I do? And this is where the problem begins. How do I fix this? I can't do it on my own. I need help. I look outside and I see a lot of white noise. It's not helping me. Where do I go for that trusted information? I can get some help from my better half, and she can always like graciously kick me in my teeth to help me improve my performance, but I just need a bit of a subtle moment here and there to address that. So that's why when you, david, say that you know, when we go back and look at beliefs, this is a very humble moment for many people and very few get that deep to address that, thinking back to, I worked many years ago at a big four firm.

Speaker 2: 26:43

One of the things they began and this is going to your point about waiting till we retire one of the things they began to notice in a very shocking way was a lot of partners were dropping like flies a few years after they left their jobs and, of course, because it's a partnership, they all got together and voted. We got to do something about this because I don't want to be one of those flies dropping and we go back to the power of identity that we spoke about in our last episode, about how we frame this identity in an egotistical shell. I mean, when a partner walks into the office and they're a senior partner, everybody stops right. They're like, in a sense, gods in that environment. They are bigger than life and they're making hay. These senior partners are also bringing in the big bucks. They are directing big projects. They have multiple hats they're wearing I'm now a regional partner, I'm the US leader in this practice or whatever and they're also wealthy wealthy beyond anything. I've ever seen what they make as partners and as firms. But then you have them leave and happy retirement.

Speaker 2: 27:53

Here's your gold watch. You walk out and you walk into a department store, a grocery store, you're out and about nobody knows who you are. They could care less that you're whatever and I think that crash of all of a sudden I'm on that mountaintop and now I feel like I'm in the desert was costing a lot, and that's why they started bringing in coaching for partners currently in the firm to begin to self-reflect and look at what they're doing and how they're doing it and how they're showing up every day, because some of these partners weren't always fun to work with either. They were plowing people over in many ways and they needed to take care of their folks. And it goes back to what you were saying Anatoly about sitting down with that other person with a different perspective. That's a pathway into self-awareness, because you have somebody else outside of you looking at what you're doing, asking what are you trying to create here? What's your ultimate intention Then? Why do you do something that seemed to be counter to that intention? Let's talk about that. What?

Speaker 2: 28:56

is your thought process before you're walking into that meeting. Are you feeling anything below your neck that gives you some warning signs that you might want to do something different when you fly off the handle? Where's that coming from? Because it seems like the situation you were just in runs counter to the degree in which you reacted. So having a skilled person that could help you with that opens a door to wow, I never thought of that, I never looked at it that way. That perception completely changes the way I'm looking at the situation and I think in my training as a coach it was those fields of body, feelings, thoughts and learning how to connect with that one that's observing in you and strengthening the muscle of that observer and that self-awareness through reflection, through exploring what's my intention, that has added a lot of value in the world in that way, and that's what the profession has done a good job of doing. Any other thoughts on this issue of self-mastery and what we've been talking about.

Speaker 3: 29:54

David, I was just going to reiterate and reinforce what you had said related to the identity factor and I often talk about that in the common characteristics of the baby boomer generation, where they were very identified within their professional roles. And I've seen it over and over, and you had mentioned it about captains and queens of industry go on to retire, only to pass away shortly thereafter. And a big part of that is because of that loss of identity that you had spoken to. And when you think about the waning years of their professional career, when they see that coming, they see in essence a death of themselves and who they felt that they were. And so, as a result of that, there's a lot of anxiety and you see some of them holding on to those jobs with a death grip because they fear losing themselves when they go on and retire. So we have a lot of aging executives that refuse to leave their jobs because of that fear. And then, consequently, what is the detrimental impact to the organization Is that sense of desperation and fear that permeates the energy and the environment of that organization and their culture. And so I think that's important to reflect on and put a fine point on for people to either evaluate themselves within that or say, yeah, I've seen that too in other executives and I don't want to be that. So how do I make sure that that doesn't take place?

Speaker 3: 31:12

And that's going to require that reflection and understanding that different stages of your career are going to demand different things of you. You know very early on in your career it's all about achievement. It's all about that growth. It's all about that value contribution Towards the end of your career. You've accomplished a great deal. Now how can you pour into others the wisdom that you've accumulated throughout your career? It's now a matter of giving back. You're not necessarily going out and achieving and doing the same things that you did early on in your career. You have a very different notion of how you show up and how you contribute, and I think that's important for us to recognize.

Speaker 4: 31:51

I just want to make a comment here which is really interesting that you and Ryan were talking about, because I've observed a lot of executives, once they retired, how they wanted to manage that executive energy and wisdom that you were talking about, where they were taking that wisdom. Most of them, quite a few of them, like start joining certain charities, ngos, doing some work, and then yeah, yeah, but then I really I really got such a kick out of like watching like a skit, when one of my people I've known decided to pass his wisdom to those kids he was coaching and those kids would be like and he was speaking to them magnanimously, like fully embodying the executive power in him, and those kids were watching him and gradually slipping down with a glazed balloon. What's going on here? Your wisdom is killing me. So this is something I wanted to mention because I observed that it was such a hilarious thing Well, that's the ego right.

Speaker 2: 32:52

It's like, yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 4: 32:53

Well it's not the ego, no, no, it's because people they've spent so much time outside of the real world they can no longer talk normal. They think like, hey, I'm being perceived because my title is still tattooed on my forehead, so if I show up, everybody's going to bow down and I will be dispensing my wisdom, right? So, which is a bit funny, because they have this period of adjustment with real life. But I want to mention one more thing you guys were covering. There's definitely, when we talked about trust and organization and all that I want to stretch it a bit further All these people who need help, including coaching and other things, right, I'm not even talking about psychotherapy right, but at the same time, there is a very diminished trust they have for people who can help them.

Speaker 4: 33:41

Them Because they get to a point it's like how can you tell me, how can I trust you to help me?

Speaker 4: 33:47

Because I don't see any trust in the world, no trust in politicians, no trust in anybody. So I extend that lack of trust to you if you're trying to help me identify my blind spots. And the reason I want to mention that is pretty important because I've come in touch with a lot of people that I talk to who said look, we'd rather go around the world, do something really crazy to shake our system and come back a bit reformed, but we'll not be talking to any other human being because ultimately, we project our fears and inconsistencies and fallacies onto those people and we would not trust them. So this is another thing that we have to consider, because we are living in the world right now, that that lack of trust and respect for other individuals because of the imperfections that we have in this world. Because of the imperfections that we have in this world, people automatically extend it to other people who have a lot to give them, but this disconnect that they have is something that's very difficult to address.

Speaker 2: 34:50

That is so essential, the first thing that I do as a client. I don't care about them learning a damn thing. They have to trust me. They have to know that I'm in their camp and I get it and I get out why it's frustrating. Or they get to say something and they get to get positive regard back for what they're saying. They have to see in somebody that you're working with that that person is not there to teach them something. That person is there for them.

Speaker 2: 35:17

I am a person that they can use as a sounding board and that they won't get judgment. And at a certain point, the only time I start pushing back is when I know they want to achieve something. They've said it over and over again. They keep on making the same mistakes, but then I'm serving them, but I've developed enough trust. I'm not saying that it isn't difficult and depending on who the coach is or the facilitator or whatever that walks in to work with them, they've got to build that relationship first and that's something that is really critical to mention and speak about, because it's true and we're living in a world where, fundamentally, we realize we've been betrayed by so many things.

Speaker 3: 35:55

It goes back to the old adage I don't care what you have to say until I know that you care.

Speaker 2: 36:00

Yeah, that you care right, and that's where the hardest-nosed executive applies to them too, because at the end of the day, they want to know you're competent, you care and you can bring something to the table. But the caring part has to be demonstrated in a way that's consistent with what their needs are and who they are. Another thing is, when you're coaching somebody, you have to see through their ego to their core self.

Speaker 2: 36:27

You have to speak to that part of them that's going to resonate because that part of them starts waking up in the process. That's the part that you're trying to pull out, that part that they've buried underneath their conditioning. Right, we're getting into another subject, but I also wanted to mention I thought it was pretty funny that we talked about the partners and the senior executive that was trying to teach kids from on high. I mean the United States of America. We saw in our last president somebody that was trying to hold on when they didn't have anything to hold on to. So we see how that identity and that time of being in political power that Joe Biden was, for example, for so long Even in a recent interview he talked about how incredibly hard it was to let go and make that decision. We all wish he would have made it sooner, you know, but that's, at the end of the day, a real big example of that. Did you want to say something about?

Speaker 3: 37:19

Ryan, there's a term that's become popularized in the field of human resources called psychological safety, and I think that a lot of people have viewed that as oh people are just so soft, they're snowflakes, they're just going to melt if they experience any kind of heat you know, type of thing. But I think it is relevant and I think it's very important that we understand the true impact of that term psychological safety. If people do not feel safe to speak up or to be fully themselves or be authentic or be vulnerable, then you're going to get a very limited version of that person and that limited version is going to only perform at a lower level. In fact, when there's not psychological safety present, you create an environment where mediocrity abounds and that's not going to be conducive to growth for the individual or for the organization, and it's always going to compromise team dynamics as well. So, to have psychological safety present where everybody's going to feel supported, you can bring up unpopular ideas, and that's okay. We're not going to beat you about the head and face when you do that. It's going to be something that's very hey. You never thought of it from that standpoint. Whether it's a good idea or bad idea, it's heard.

Speaker 3: 38:36

Consequently, we all have a need to be seen, to be heard and to be understood, and the environments that create that understanding and perpetuate that understanding are the environments where you can show up and be authentic as well as be vulnerable and say I'm not sure.

Speaker 3: 38:52

I understand how this works, and that's something that a lot of professionals are very hesitant to do is be vulnerable in any professional environment because they're evaluated based on their competency and their skill. And so if they were to admit I don't know something that may in some way psychologically compromise them to not admit those things, and then we kind of do the old fake it till we make it kind of thing and then we make mistakes, we compromise safety, we compromise all kinds of things from a performance standpoint. Stakes we compromise safety, we compromise all kinds of things from a performance standpoint. So I think psychological safety is an important thing to recognize truly in its most authentic way for organizations to create that environment. And just remember every single person. I don't care who you are and what walk of life you come from. You have a need to be seen, to be heard and to be understood, and that's where the engagement factor comes in, and when you're fully engaged, you're fully focused on the work and you show up authentically as yourself and you can perform at that higher level.

Speaker 2: 39:49

And one way. The psychological safety word has become a buzzword today. It has been used, and everything is used in various ways, to not necessarily create it or shame somebody at not creating it, but it is essential because what we have to do is go back to self-mastery. Do we want to create an environment where people tap into this internal self that aligns with their expertise and experience to bring forth the best outcomes, the best innovation, the best ideas, the best efforts? Or do we want to create an organization that clamps that down, where we have a reactive boss that is shutting down psychological safety and getting me into my conditioning and into my disempowering beliefs about either myself or authority? That's what the real platform here is. Psychological safety is essential because what we want to do is create environments that bring out the best, as you said, ryan, in people, and in order to do that, I have to be in a place where I can relax and be myself and make mistakes.

Speaker 2: 40:52

We all talk about failure is one of the core pathways to greater success, because I learned that didn't work and we hear the mantra you have to let people fail.

Speaker 2: 41:02

But the thing is is we talk about all the right things and what we don't do is go to the core of what we're talking about today and understand why we're doing this and what we're trying to bring out in ourselves, first through self-mastery, in order to help other people gain access to their self-mastery, and that this is not like just be nice to whatever. It's about creating an environment that is empowering, where people can then be held accountable because they want to be for the sake of the higher expression, and I want to talk just a little bit about this. I touched on it earlier. So, let's say, you take the time to get clear on your vision and the leadership and the impact you want to have as a leader, but embodying and realizing that is a different story. That's when we run into the walls. So I just want to talk about the challenges and pile on today's environment and say, okay, and Anatole, you talked about leaders.

Speaker 2: 41:59

I think last show leaders don't aspiration, come on, maybe I'm just trying to get through my day. And, anatole, you talked about leaders. I think last show leaders, don't. Aspiration, come on, maybe I'm just trying to get through my day, get out the door, get back up with my family and in this tenure that I'm in, so I can take advantage of those golden handcuffs. I've been in Talk a little bit about the difficulties that we face personally and environmentally and stepping into a bigger self, a bigger vision, et cetera. What are the challenges that we face?

Speaker 4: 42:22

Hey, it's a very simple situation. Think about this To get where people are, especially with executives, it takes a lot of work, a lot of mental, intellectual effort, right, just to get there, build enough grit, build enough gravitas to harness their business acumen, anything that's happening at the very kind of emotional, intellectual level. Now they think that's the fuel enough to carry them through until the day they retire. However, this engine starts sputtering somewhere in between and they don't know what to do about it. Right, this is the problem, because to address that themselves, they have to step outside of their safety zone. Because, look, this is what I know, right, this is my title. My people who are working for me, that's my family, that's my dog. I occasionally kick the dog around.

Speaker 4: 43:13

Okay, now, what do I need to do? I need to step out of it and actually realize that I'm a douche and I need to do something about it. Right, and what do I do? I mean, do I want to hire somebody to tell me in my face, on my dime, that this is what I am? No, so this is why there's only a tiny sliver of professionals. They start gradually moving in that direction and they start maybe doing a bit of yoga, a bit of meditation, a touch of mindfulness, and it takes a long time.

Speaker 4: 43:44

And this is where the problem is, because nobody knows how long it's going to take for them to start tapping into their beliefs and making those deep surgical changes in them, because nobody's telling them look, what you're doing is going to probably bring some effect in about 20 years time. You'll be dead by then. So how about you start doing something a bit more radical? And this is what I think needs to be addressed, because people have all sorts of like false ideas. Hey, if I start doing some breath work, a bit of extra work in the gym, a bit of like, maybe, community work, that should be enough to give me that extend my good graces up to maybe five years, right, and then I'll have my window opportunity to become the better version of myself. But this is what nobody's talking about. Look, it's going to take a lot longer and a lot more effort. So how about you learn one lesson that is flipping urgent, to start right now? This is what nobody talks about, unfortunately, because it's not a popular topic, right? But I think that needs to be said.

Speaker 2: 44:50

It's so well said Breathwork, community service, journaling, reflection We've been highly tactical in our means in our conversations with people about what they ought to do to become better versions of themselves. We haven't talked about underneath that. So before you decide whether you're going to do breath work, meditation, community work, to go and hone your skills in certain ways, maybe you ought to get in touch with that part of yourself, as you're pointing to Anatoly. That would be motivated to do any of those things, because everybody has a different combination. That's what's beautiful about human beings is we're all unique. We also have a unique combination to get to self-mastery.

Speaker 2: 45:34

There are certain things we could do commonly to help us with that, but the fundamental thing you're pointing to is we have to step back and say who am I? Why am I here? What do I really care about? What really floats my boat? What is it that I want to change, that I care about changing, and one of the things I think about the limitations on leadership development programs. We all want people to lead in order to accomplish the organization's mission and make sure they're good at a CFO role or a chief marketing officer role or VP of this or that or a direct report. That's an individual contributor being good at their job, but we're afraid to really let the cat horse out of the barn, their true self. Well, we invested in them. What if they discover that their passion really is they want to start an art gallery in Soho I'm being extreme there. What if that happens and we lose all this investment and now we have to go find somebody that is as talented as them? I don't want to lose them. So that's also a little limitation that I think we face.

Speaker 2: 46:32

We're also pointing back to I think we've made this exclamation point happen how difficult we've made it for ourselves or to step into a new identity. We can't force that. We can't do things that are at the surface to get to the core. That's the wrong way. That's putting the cart before the horse. What does it take? What can we do to make that happen in the most effective way? And this takes us back to the resilient leader method. So I want to take some time now to share, based on this conversation, how the resilient leader method process circumvents all those false efforts, keeps us from having to go too deep into the well of looking at all that stuff in our childhood that we don't want to sit on the couch and look at for years because I'm afraid I'll become a puddle and won't be able to go back to work. How does this? What is it about this method? That and how does this method relate to self-mastery? So I'd like you to start there, anatoly, and just talk about that.

Speaker 4: 47:41

Well, I just want to give an example. The first time I realized that this method would be good for executives was like 10 years ago. One of the CFO of the biggest company, one of the biggest companies in the world. He interviewed me. He was looking for a way to do something with his self-development and he said oh, you're perfect, you're not going to be pushing anything in my face, you're not going to be telling me anything, because you just sit there and I start thinking I need to be doing this for myself, I need to be doing that. This is perfect.

Speaker 4: 48:16

And I was like okay, well, I didn't say much. He said well, that's why I love you for this. You know, you just said there, but my commitment to improve myself went through the roof. So I thought like oh, so apparently this is where we start, other than being active, like passive, aggressive sometimes that the way people are to help other people realize where their flaws are. You just need to create conditions for people to be able to see it for themselves. Okay, and that was something that really appealed to me, because he said like okay, well, technically, I feel that there's some level of resonance going on that puts me in a certain state and that state I begin to see myself openly for what I need to do. So there's no pressure, there's no need for me to put up with any nonsense you want to share with me. I mean I like that talk. Sometimes people tell me in my face things like that and I was like, look, it doesn't get to be whatever you say. But I like that you fight. I like you have enough psychological safety to behave like that.

Speaker 4: 49:23

Okay, because this is again going back to this how do you create the kind of environment that will be used as a working environment for somebody to do some self-work? So, in other words, like you don't have to tell them what to do, but it's conducive to help them identify? Oh, I remember like 25 years ago I did this and it's still haunting me. I need to get it off my list. I mean I heard people say that and I never really put them in that situation. Get it off my list. I mean I heard people say that and I never really put them in that situation. Somehow, being slightly elevated in that sense brought that level of introspection and humility to them. But they started like scratching down in a list of things they need to address. I never really called my brother. It's been 40 years. I need to follow through on that. And they would be looking at me like why did you say that? I said I said nothing, I was guzzling your free water and coffee. Thank you very much. You said it yourself. So again, so that started with creating that environment.

Speaker 4: 50:21

Once the environment is created, then back to what you, david, were talking about, about the level of trust that slips very nicely and creates level of communication where people can look and examine things they never touched with a 10-foot pole. This is when we are going back to beliefs. You don't have to tell them how to label that. They dredge it up by themselves. That's exactly why I think this method is good, because people start thinking about that. I never really fed my cat well and I was only five, but now I start thinking about it. I cannot get it out of my head. You know, you start hearing this stuff and it's kind of like okay, that's a revelation, we can work with that. So that's why I mean, like going to beliefs means like you're going back to even your early childhood and that's a very healthy beginning. That's a very healthy start.

Speaker 2: 51:12

Well, you said a couple of things there that I think are important to emphasize. Number one, ryan, you had your experience with this when you first met Anatoly and we started going doing on podcasts. There's this sense of relaxation that happens and openness that happens and talking to you, and there's a sense of you don't have an agenda. This process, let me be clear, it does not have an agenda, except for your agenda. And before I continue what I was saying, the beginning of the process is having you decide both what you want to eject from your system, let go of, and what you want to bring in, and what's happening is a self-healing process is being ignited in you through the work with Anatoly. He's not doing anything to you per se, so you're going back to this point of you're always living in theta state and a theta frequency. This goes back to this inner self that we have when it's in that coherent state of meditation, healing, relaxation, openness, which is a lot of what theta brings.

Speaker 2: 52:11

First of all, the more frantic, higher ways, which are also important, like alpha and beta, are essential. But the brain loves coherence and I remember Linda LeBlanc talking about what we're discovering with the brain is it actually has a craving to be operating at a higher level. There's something in it that says when it runs into theta, it goes. Thank you, now we can relax. And when you relax, the best part of yourself begins to emerge. Also, there is this recognition that you're not there with you're not you're their agenda other than to be a clearing for them. Is that fair to say?

Speaker 4: 52:47

What's also important, I want to add, it's not only lots of good things that sit in Theta, but also our subconscious mind resides in Theta. All the trash, all the junk we accumulate, it sits there and the moment you go in Theta it reveals itself like, hey, take me, take the trash out, look at this. So this is why it's like all the treasures. I mean Theta bandwidth is packed with all the treasures. I know, david, you want to like really give credence to other but other waking states other than maybe like gamma, which is like high performance state, but they don't pack even like one 10th of what Theta does. Yeah, so Theta has all the treasures. So that's why I think it's. It's why I think it's conducive, because sometimes people when they say like well, I'm this or I'm that, it's like look, all the stuff that you hanker after sits in the Theta bandwidth and there's nothing we can do about it, but at least it's good where to go for it.

Speaker 2: 53:45

You're really pointing to something I want to emphasize too and I'm really glad you brought this up that the doorway to your subconscious mind is open. You're able to connect to it at a deeper level. See it, and that has a couple benefits with what we're talking about. First of all, that's where all your disempowering, harmful beliefs are stored, and not just stored. Your subconscious mind is bought into them, and that's why they're so hard to change unless you reflect. But reflection is the start. What we're doing with you Anatoly is now. They just come to the surface. I can see them. Not only that, I can just pick them out and throw them away, and I can then replace them with these beliefs now and plant them like a seed that will then flourish after the reset. Is that fair to say?

Speaker 4: 54:32

Yes, that's right.

Speaker 2: 54:34

Yeah, yeah. So that's what's really important. It's not just being entrained with theta state. As Anatoly said, theta state is where the subconscious lies and is accessible. That's why meditation and mindfulness all these things are important in the healing process that I've been pointing to, because they take you to theta state and so, rather than you don't have to meditate for 25 years to get the benefits, you can spend two hours in the Anatoly and it automatically happens. So that's really important to say. And, ryan, I'd like you to pop in here anything you want to say about your experiences and what you've had with this. You shared several episodes ago.

Speaker 3: 55:09

Yeah, there's no question about it. I experience an elevated state of consciousness through these conversations and in talking with Anatoly and yourself, and my energy is off the charts after these podcasts. It really gets me thinking in a very expanded way. I see connections and relationships to things that I did not see before.

Speaker 3: 55:32

As you were talking, it occurred to me that the pinnacle of paradigms in emotional intelligence is integrity and integrity. You operate where there's unconditional acceptance of all things, and when you have that unconditional acceptance of all things, you don't view everything as a threat and you see the opportunity presented in all things. We talked about the discomfort in our body. Well, we might label that as bad, so we want to ignore it, but that discomfort in our body is something we want to unconditionally accept and say what is that telling us? And in that unconditional acceptance, we now have an opportunity to learn from it. So when you combine agendas with entrenched and limited beliefs, they actually become the barrier instead of the conduit to performance. And so we've got to recognize we're removing that barrier by entering into this state of mind where we are unconditionally accepting and then seeing the every opportunity as an opportunity to learn and grow and create something new. I just think that's beautiful.

Speaker 2: 56:38

Well, learning and knowing more things can be valuable. Learning new skills, having experiences is valuable. It's part of life. They ain't going to get you there. You have to step into what we talked about today, into this core part of yourself that already has the resources you need to thrive in today's disruptive, uncertain world.

Speaker 2: 56:58

And I wanted to caveat to another story of a client who tapped into this through her work with us, and her name is Jamie and she's a chief marketing officer who was referred to me by another executive who had been through the resilient leader method firsthand. And Jamie, she's one of the most prolific marketing leaders I've ever met. She's driven, highly skilled. She elevates brand impact to a whole nother level. She's adept at building high-performing marketing teams that deliver results. But when she came to me she was at kind of a pivotal moment in her career. She had had a harrowing experience in her last role where she walked into a culture of misaligned values, a team that wasn't set up for success and expectations that were far from realistic. Further, on top of that, two of her new direct reports had interviewed for her role and had a little bit of resentment that she got it. So she walked into this situation. There were a few obstacles she's faced that would have tested any leader. But what happened is she internalized that and that turned her to start questioning her own capability. Now, where was that coming from? Not everybody in that situation would have done that Jamie did. Why? Because she had some past that was related to this situation, right? So, despite her track record, she started doubting herself. Instead of being confident and decisive as she normally was, she became more reserved and cautious. She hesitated to speak up in front of executive meetings and found herself holding back, second-guessing her instincts, realizing she might have gone too fast in the beginning and not taking her time to get to know people well was beating herself up for that, and this confidence kind of put a big wet blanket on her. So we zeroed in on this core issue of hers, which is really about self-mastery. Jamie was letting that experience define her. The real challenge wasn't the lack of her marketing expertise and her ability to engage people. It was how she was relating to herself based on that difficult experience, and she needed to reclaim that personal power or actually amp it up. More than that, just this was an opportunity. Goes back to the signals in ourselves. It's a gift. Right, you have abilities, but you have way more than you think you do, and so she also realized that this was opening up an old wound. So she wanted to address it through the resilient leader method, because she heard great things about it.

Speaker 2: 59:13

So after the reset, again, as is normal, jamie described her experience as transformational. She no longer felt the need to defend herself or overcompensate. Instead, she started looking at that difficult experience with fresh eyes. She took responsibility for her part, but not from a place of self-blame, but as a powerful lesson to make her a better leader. She would never let that happen again from a strategy standpoint, and she realized she had to go.

Speaker 2: 59:38

In all situations it's better to go a little slower than to go fast. In this case, she could have taken some time to understand the culture more and more deeply, understood the issues with the team and what was going on because people didn't get the job, et cetera. But she also gained perspective around the obstacles that were beyond her control, acknowledged that the situation would have challenged any leader in that situation and that everybody's had experiences in their career like this. They run into a situation. It's not always a perfect fit. So she reframed the story, but not only that she began to fill this. She reframed the story, but not only that. She began to fill this powerful self in her. Come forward and talk to her.

Speaker 2: 1:00:14

She shared a story about waking up in the morning and a voice, as if it was somebody in the room, said for her it's time to stop trying to survive and it's time to rise. She heard it clear as day when she woke up and that led her to, hey, where did this voice come from? And she made sure she wasn't going crazy with me. I said, no, this is good, you need to start talking to that voice, talking to that inner self. And she began to talk to it and get insights and intuitions. And she also found herself I just am present. I don't have to work to be present, I am just present. And in that presence it's a platform that enables me to appreciate spending time away reflecting, because I want to get to know what this presence is.

Speaker 2: 1:01:02

You know, there's a great teacher that once said for a while you're stalking yourself, but then it begins to stalk you Because once you open the door to it, it begins to engage in a relationship with you directly. It's like, oh, somebody's paying, you're finally paying attention to me, and so this is what happened for her. And she said like I just feel at more ease now. I don't overthink or try to prove myself. I'm just showing up as me and, unapologetically, I'm grounded. I'm just showing up as me and unapologetically I'm grounded, I'm present and I know I'm capable. She just knows this in herself, not from an arrogant point of view, but just from a knowing point of view.

Speaker 2: 1:01:37

And she began engaging her team from this place of clarity and moving forward away from reactionary decision-making and forcing and pushing, and that all changed the whole game. And she also said something that was very powerful. She said for the first time in my career, I feel in my own skin. I care deeply about forming trust. You don't second guess myself when I'm engaging around the team. So I'm not trying to edit myself, I just come from the orientation. I'm trying to create trust and that very intention guides me to do the right things. To build trust. I don't have to go back to the book and read what trust is right.

Speaker 2: 1:02:11

So the bottom line resilient leader method didn't just help Jamie shake off doubts. It helped her redefine how she shows up as a leader and helped her form that relationship that all self-mastery relationships ask us to form, that deep, intimate connection with our best friend, which is ourselves. Our best friend is us, and when we form that relationship with us, then it makes it far easier and actually a no-brainer to do the same with others. See, that's the key. What this unlocks is a natural way of being that we all have, that naturally knows what to do. It leads from intention that is heart-centered, because you deeply care about it, and then it also gives you instructions for what to do and how to do it.

Speaker 2: 1:02:55

And yes, then when you go back to mindfulness or think about some of the tactics we talked about, you may become very interested in learning something that would help you be better at what you do. But you're not doing it because some coach or trainer or facilitator came in and said start doing breathwork. You're doing it. You're doing breathwork because it opens something up in you that makes you stronger in your body, or taking care of a medical condition, or maybe just being. It taught me how to be more, to have a steeper relationship with this presence that I'm feeling, so just wanted to share that. The relationship with her core self was what she really opened up in that and it was very natural. It wasn't forced at all. So with that, as we close this series on the power of belief, gentlemen, any parting words you want to say as we close out the series on the?

Speaker 3: 1:03:48

power. I just want to say for the listeners if you haven't heard the first two episodes, I would definitely encourage you to go back and listen to those. We definitely have some gold nuggets for you, to mine, from each one of these episodes that you can take something away and start applying it to your own professional and personal life, for that matter. So I think there's a great deal of value, a chock full of, within all these episodes, but particularly the last two episodes related to belief in this particular episode as well.

Speaker 2: 1:04:16

Thank you, Rai. Definitely a good thing to do. Appreciate you making that invitation, Anatoli. Any parting words from you?

Speaker 4: 1:04:23

Yeah, I think it's a good idea that we split such a huge topic on beliefs in three episodes, technically, because people don't like talking about beliefs, because they'll say like, hey, I've got my good beliefs right, so you're probably talking about somebody else who's got a lot of problems. But talking about this within the context of all the stuff that we've been covering, I think this is very important and I really, of all the stuff that we've been covering, I think this is very important and I really, Ryan, I need to learn from you how you can say those eloquent statements without actually drawing any breath. I mean this is amazing.

Speaker 3: 1:04:58

So, because I run out of it, you create the conditions, I'm just you know.

Speaker 2: 1:05:06

He's just flowing from his core self. He's just flowing from his core self, yeah, and doing his breath work. Yeah, during his breath work he's doing special breath work. Breath work Exactly.

Speaker 4: 1:05:14

It's best. Yeah, that's right, that's right. The three of us. I think we covered enough for anybody to listen to what we have to say on beliefs. I think that's enough to take it to another level.

Speaker 3: 1:05:25

Great.

Speaker 2: 1:05:25

Thank you, anatoly. Thank you, Anatoly. Thank you, ryan, for joining me in this. So, as Ryan said, over the past three episodes, we've pulled back the curtain on belief systems, the invisible frameworks that guide our leadership and our way of operating in life, and we've seen how they in self-mastery and the power of deep, lasting change, which is what the purpose of exploring our beliefs is all about. If something in the episode or series resonated and you're ready to explore your own transformation, I invite you to reach out.

Speaker 2: 1:06:03

Whether you want to know more about the resilient leader method or just want to have a conversation about what's next for you as a leader method, or just want to have a conversation about what's next for you as a leader, don't wait. You can visit davidkragatzcom or message me by emailing me, david, at davidkragatzcom, I'd be happy to have a conversation. Finally, let me add, besides this, you don't need to become someone new. You just need to remember who you really are and let go whatever is holding you back from being. That. The truth is your beliefs don't define you, you define them. Now's the time to choose to believe and what you want to believe and lead from that place. Again, thanks for listening to Unfazed Under Fire and we hope to see you next time. This is David Kragutz, leadership Alchemist, signing off for now. Have a great rest of your day. Bye.